CR on the Southern Secondary

R&DB wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:21 pm Why would you want to move intermodel to Ocean County. I don't see the need. And besides NJT restrictions there is the Tinton Avenue bridge in Eatontown clearance issue.If you are thinking about the former Ciba facility for aa transload site I suggest you due a recent sattelite view. Most of thhe open space there is now a huge solar farm. Something like 117 acres of panels.

If there was ever a larger transloading operation on the Southern/FIT than the once-a-week tank at this moment, a transloading customer might desire a TOFC or containers to be shipped to their premises or a transloading site.

In addition to that, in some of the NJTPA reports I've come across, there is a desire to have intermodal facilities in southern and central NJ. The FIT and Southern run through huge swaths of both and could be near any potential sites if they ever materialize. They also discussed giving Fort Dix rail connection again. I'd imagine Fort Dix, if they received anything, would be containers or TOFC, as well as vehicles on flat cars.

The Coastline North of the bridge goes to Rahway and the NEC. The freight comes down the Chemical Coast from Oak Island Yard via Port Reading. I'm not aware of any freight between Rahway and Wood interlocking. Besides Amtrak frowns on freight.

@JohnFromJersey No intermodal allowed anywhere on the Coast Line. The weight isn’t a problem. Well cars fully loaded will only weigh around 220k or so depending on the car. The Southern did have intermodal traffic at one point. Seaway Intermodal was located on Squankum Road where Suburban Building Products is now. They left when NJT put catenaries on the Coast Line.

@R&DB In the Lakewood area there’s a huge amount of distribution centers and at least two manufacturing plants. Most of them use intermodal.

Containers into Ocean County come from CSXs Greenwich Yard in Philly and the intermodal terminals in Newark. It is possible for these containers to reach Ocean County by rail, but I’m not sure if these companies would use rail.

For starters, a place to load/unload containers from trains would need to be found it would need to be fairly close to industrial areas in Lakewood. It would also need to have a connection with local truck routes. A reach stacker and probably a trailer mover would be needed.

This technology here would help with this in some regard. It doesn’t require a reach stacker at the destination terminal.

https://railrunner.com/

The only real reason to do this is because, apparently, a lot of the trucking companies and the customers they serve have been complaining about how Port Newark is operated. Lots of complaints about fees, rules, coronavirus restrictions, etc. They would rather have it come in to somewhere else that’s as close as possible to completely avoid dealing with Port Newark altogether. One of the places that wants this the most is Church and Dwight near the Blue Claws Stadium.

I’m not 100 percent certain about the viability though. The service would have to be really good and cheap for this to work.

For the places that manufacture stuff and deal with bulk goods, I could see them dealing with regular transloading to get their inbound loads of said loads come from far away. Again though, this would need good service at a cheap price. Something we won’t get from Conrail or C&D. The former because they don’t care about this line and the latter because of all their godforsaken tariffs and the way their service.

I don't think you fully understand how tariffs work. Their service has given them a record carloads in 2021 on the D&D and one new customer. They are currently on pace to beat that in 2022 and they got BASF to come back to rail in Washington. The DRRV is also seeing a surge vs 2022 and they also have a new customer on the High Bridge Line. But hey, bad track trumps all.

BASF only came back because the place they moved to wasn’t working out the way they wanted and they aren’t moving as much as products as they used to.

I don’t know who they picked up on the High Bridge Branch but who’s the other guy they picked up? The guy transloading lumber in Washington?

Edit: They also lost a customer. Berrys Plastics in Phillipsburg. I presume they moved their bottle production from there to Hightstown?

Forgot about the transload in Washington. I was referring to all the Plate F reefers they are moving at NYK Logistics.

Edit: Hightstown has not seen an increase in traffic since Berry closed their P'Burg plant

I know about them, but who did they pick up on the High Bridge Branch?

Yeah they have. Berrys Plastics gets 2 or so extra cars at least every other trip now. Tyler Distribution has been getting an extra car here or there too.

Someone is getting box cars of brick in Roxbury.

Berry on the Hightstown in 2018: 123 cars
2019: 124 cars
2020: 129 cars
2021: 107 cars
ytd 2022: 20 cars ( on pace for 80 cars)

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:04 pm @R&DB In the Lakewood area there’s a huge amount of distribution centers and at least two manufacturing plants. Most of them use intermodal.

Containers into Ocean County come from CSXs Greenwich Yard in Philly and the intermodal terminals in Newark. It is possible for these containers to reach Ocean County by rail, but I’m not sure if these companies would use rail.

For starters, a place to load/unload containers from trains would need to be found it would need to be fairly close to industrial areas in Lakewood. It would also need to have a connection with local truck routes. A reach stacker and probably a trailer mover would be needed.

This technology here would help with this in some regard. It doesn’t require a reach stacker at the destination terminal.

https://railrunner.com/

The only real reason to do this is because, apparently, a lot of the trucking companies and the customers they serve have been complaining about how Port Newark is operated. Lots of complaints about fees, rules, coronavirus restrictions, etc. They would rather have it come in to somewhere else that’s as close as possible to completely avoid dealing with Port Newark altogether. One of the places that wants this the most is Church and Dwight near the Blue Claws Stadium.

I’m not 100 percent certain about the viability though. The service would have to be really good and cheap for this to work.

For the places that manufacture stuff and deal with bulk goods, I could see them dealing with regular transloading to get their inbound loads of said loads come from far away. Again though, this would need good service at a cheap price. Something we won’t get from Conrail or C&D. The former because they don’t care about this line and the latter because of all their godforsaken tariffs and the way their service.

Economies of scale, or something. If a customer is going to be getting a lot of carloads, in the end, no matter what the railroad tariff is, it will still be cheaper than having to hire a bunch of trucks to do it.

CR tariffs or not, consider the fact that some companies who have asked CR for service, willing to pay whatever tariff, have just been flat out told no.

There's a spot by Cross Street that I think could work for a small-medium sized transloading operation (+ it's near all the warehouses): https://imgur.com/a/a3OYXYm

There are definitely other spots too. Maybe some of the old quarries CR used to service but are now defunct could be options.

CR7876 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:25 pm I don't think you fully understand how tariffs work. Their service has given them a record carloads in 2021 on the D&D and one new customer. They are currently on pace to beat that in 2022 and they got BASF to come back to rail in Washington. The DRRV is also seeing a surge vs 2022 and they also have a new customer on the High Bridge Line. But hey, bad track trumps all.

That's actually pretty encouraging that C&D won't screw the Southern up as much as CR has been recently.

@JohnFromJersey Perhaps, but Cross Street is literally hell on earth without the trucks that use that road. Any truck pulling out onto that road will be waiting quite a while.

The Ciba-Geigy Chemical Corporation in Toms River, Dover Township, New Jersey, site encompasses approximately 1,400 acres, 320 of which are developed. Thats only a tiny speck of what the site is!
The reasons for this large piece of property was to avoid prying eyes. Remembering that Ciba-Geigy first got thrown out of a Country (switzerland 1850) Before getting run out of Ohio to move to Toms River (cira1970).
They never really broke any rules, there were none and when there were the Township looked the other way, as they received a very nice Country Club, and watering hole...
When told to stop pumping into the TR, they were approve to pump in the ocean.
They were only responsible for minimal cancer causing issues.
That was left to Reich Farm on Rt. 9 but how much money can you get from two old people?
So follow the money go after BASF company responsible for both super fund sites!

I thought Tom’s River Chemical was the one dumping chemicals in the water and it happened before Ciba Geicy took over the place???

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:58 am I thought Tom’s River Chemical was the one dumping chemicals in the water and it happened before Ciba Geicy took over the place???

Not sure, but I've been told Toms River Chemical dumped into the river and Ciba ran a pipe out through Ortley Beach and dumped into the ocean. And the name is / was Ciba Geigy not geicy. An engineeriing company I used to work for did some work for them at a North Jersey facility, and I was there several times.