Control of Penn Station, NY

Retail and Food could be contracted out to Delaware North....

Backshophoss wrote:Believe all of the LIRR concourse retail and maintenance is handled by MTA.

As is NJT's 7th Ave concourse. They operate as independent entities within the larger complex. Hence the trouble with the recent false shooting report - none of the police forces were synced to communicate.

The station should actually be operated as one entity, rather than separate stations within, to increase integration of the railroads and provide a more seamless experience through the facility.

JamesRR wrote:The station should actually be operated as one entity, rather than separate stations within, to increase integration of the railroads and provide a more seamless experience through the facility.

Agreed. The LIRR concourse is tacky and maze-like, the NJT concourse looks like it was slapped together from scrapped pieces of the Empire State Building lobby, and Amtrak's concourse is half '60s airline terminal and half low-budget mall food court. A single property management company (call it New York Pennsylvania Station LLP) owned by the three tenants would make more money for all of its tenants and repair the passenger facilities holistically.

SRich wrote:...
i 've said it al before, to safe Amtrak, bring the entire NEC(including empire corridor to Albany) corridor under single government ownership(Amtrak ore US DOT), then let the commuter, freight and IC traffic pay for the miles and times they use the NEC, the owner use that generated money to keep the NEC in a good state of repair.
It's ridiculous that NJT just pay $ 1.5 million for everything, i would like to know what LIRR is paying for Penn.... no wonder that Amtrak haven't has enough money for propper maintaining the NEC.

worth noting is that NJT's payment has increased significantly since the signing of PRIIA agreement late last year but those payments have yet to have an impact since this would be the first construction season in which the funds could have been used. whoever wrote PRIIA was smart to recognize the backdoor subsidy commuter agencies received from Amtrak. the new agreement should have a positive impact over time.

mtuandrew wrote:

JamesRR wrote:The station should actually be operated as one entity, rather than separate stations within, to increase integration of the railroads and provide a more seamless experience through the facility.

Agreed. The LIRR concourse is tacky and maze-like, the NJT concourse looks like it was slapped together from scrapped pieces of the Empire State Building lobby, and Amtrak's concourse is half '60s airline terminal and half low-budget mall food court. A single property management company (call it New York Pennsylvania Station LLP) owned by the three tenants would make more money for all of its tenants and repair the passenger facilities holistically.

From a juridical point is NY Penn station ownership is not direct Amtrak but Penn Station LLC. Penn Station LLC is owned by Amtrak.

mtuandrew wrote:

JamesRR wrote:The station should actually be operated as one entity, rather than separate stations within, to increase integration of the railroads and provide a more seamless experience through the facility.

Agreed. The LIRR concourse is tacky and maze-like, the NJT concourse looks like it was slapped together from scrapped pieces of the Empire State Building lobby, and Amtrak's concourse is half '60s airline terminal and half low-budget mall food court. A single property management company (call it New York Pennsylvania Station LLP) owned by the three tenants would make more money for all of its tenants and repair the passenger facilities holistically.

I don't think the three roads would actually want that though... each one has different needs , particularly because the needs of daily commuters vary greatly from the needs of long distance passengers. I'm willing to bet they like having control of their own concourses, and would fight a proposal to take that away from them tooth-and-nail.

There are three separate police forces in one station?

BandA wrote:There are three separate police forces in one station?

Amtrak Police, which is the primary police force there (all 6 of them) & calls the shots
MTA Police (LIRR)
NJT Police

Then the NYPD has its counter terror units in there, plus the National Guard patrols.

Amtrak Police had access to the NYPD radio bands, but never invested in the radios that could actually dial them in. After the recent false shooting report, they announced new radios would be coming to allow them to communicate with NYPD.

JamesRR wrote:

BandA wrote:There are three separate police forces in one station?

Amtrak Police, which is the primary police force there (all 6 of them) & calls the shots
MTA Police (LIRR)
NJT Police

Then the NYPD has its counter terror units in there, plus the National Guard patrols.

Amtrak Police had access to the NYPD radio bands, but never invested in the radios that could actually dial them in. After the recent false shooting report, they announced new radios would be coming to allow them to communicate with NYPD.

Looks like some one is getting nice new Fancy motorola APX

Amtrak Pd is on the older side of the UHF band the NYPD is T-band and Wideband they told the FCC go screw over narrow banding

deathtopumpkins wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:

JamesRR wrote:The station should actually be operated as one entity, rather than separate stations within, to increase integration of the railroads and provide a more seamless experience through the facility.

Agreed. The LIRR concourse is tacky and maze-like, the NJT concourse looks like it was slapped together from scrapped pieces of the Empire State Building lobby, and Amtrak's concourse is half '60s airline terminal and half low-budget mall food court. A single property management company (call it New York Pennsylvania Station LLP) owned by the three tenants would make more money for all of its tenants and repair the passenger facilities holistically.

I don't think the three roads would actually want that though... each one has different needs , particularly because the needs of daily commuters vary greatly from the needs of long distance passengers. I'm willing to bet they like having control of their own concourses, and would fight a proposal to take that away from them tooth-and-nail.

Most of the passengers on Amtrak are not long distance passengers but corridor passengers (nec, empire, keystones, etc)
3 separate police forces, 3 separate concourses, 3 separate operations is no way to run the nation's busiest rail station...that much is painfully clear.

Pick one police force and the other two pay in based on how many officers they want/need for their area. The anti-terrorism folks need to stay tho!

Police Departments in NY Penn that I have seen actively patrolling:

Amtrak PD
MTA PD (LIRR)
NJT Police
NYPD
NY State Police
NY Army National Guard

Suburban Station wrote: Most of the passengers on Amtrak are not long distance passengers but corridor passengers (nec, empire, keystones, etc)

Yes, corridor passengers outnumber LD passengers at NYP, but my point still holds true. Corridor passengers tend to use the station differently than NJT or LIRR passengers.

deathtopumpkins wrote:

Suburban Station wrote: Most of the passengers on Amtrak are not long distance passengers but corridor passengers (nec, empire, keystones, etc)

Yes, corridor passengers outnumber LD passengers at NYP, but my point still holds true. Corridor passengers tend to use the station differently than NJT or LIRR passengers.

But that doesn't mean the station as a whole needs to be so compartmentalized.

The original concept for Penn was outgoing passengers on the Upper Level, incoming on the Lower Level (Exit Concourse). This allowed incoming passengers to go straight to the subways. Now, all concourses are used for all purposes, resulting in poor flow.

Grand Central was novel in that it separated long distance from commuter services on two levels. This might also be a more long-range solution at Penn - have NJT and LIRR on their own lower concourse, while Amtrak remains on the main level.

Oh I agree that flow can absolutely be improved. I'm just pointing out that I can see Amtrak, NJT, and LIRR fighting efforts to bring the station under unified management, because they like to have their own areas under their control.