Atlantic Avenue Brooklyn Terminal

While your suggestion certainly passes a test for common sense, a good part of the riding public may fail to find confidence knowing their lives and those of the 1200 accompanying them rides on a $3 Chinese egg-timer.

Personally however, between you and me, I can attest that this isn't a completely untested idea.

litz wrote:They're certainly darned lucky nobody was in there ...

The 'waiting area' is not the passenger waiting area. That small lobby that the train entered is an employee only area, provides access to a service hallway and employee facilities. Right in that lobby is a time clock for the car cleaners. Thankfully, none were waiting to punch in or out, as the time of the incident is about punch time.

Content redacted in its entirety by an Admin.

Admin note: Thanks for the heads up. Other content redacted.

geico wrote:

CarterB wrote:Photos of the scene looks to me like a cab control car at front, not a locomotive. Is this the case?

All LIRR trains to Brooklyn are EMUs. Passenger locos cant fit.

CB: The only LIRR locomotives that can run on the Atlantic Branch are the SW1001s 100-107.
The C3s are too large for the tunnel between Nostrand Avenue and Atlantic Terminal.
All of the other locomotive types are too heavy for the elevated structure between Nostrand Avenue east towards East New York specifically.

The Atlantic Branch to FBA is strictly served by MU cars in case anyone is not familiar with the line. That was a M7 train that was involved here. Car 7553 looks to be the lead car on this train.

As bad as this mishap was it could have been a whole lot worse...

MACTRAXX

I can bet that the NTSB is gonna start looking more at the floors of these M-7s and other passenger cars to see how they handle punctures. I find it very alarming that that both the MNR Valhalla accident and this one involve rail piercing the bottom of the train into the passenger compartment. Lets wait and see what comes out of this. Happy that nobody lost their life in this accident. I also noted that the media as always tries to play detective on things they know nothing about. This train could not have traveled at above 15 mph as the cab signal would have been at 15. speed limit into the station is 5mph.
It is possible that the train hit the bumper block at the full 15mph. You don't need that much speed to cause damage. The fact that the train's speed is limited to 15mph by speed control probably made this accident completely survivable. This could have been way worse had it not been in place.

litz wrote:"Moving very slowly" ... it was obviously moving fast enough to overcome the bumpers ... what's the rating on what a bumper can actually withstand?

A mile long freight train coming downgrade at 1/2 mph with the slack run all the way in would jump the bumper block as well. It's not the speed but the energy that determines what "overcomes" the bumper.

Force = Mass times acceleration. You can get force from heavy and slow, you can get force from light and fast.

Admin Note:

Please make sure, if you are adding photos, they are current to this incident, or you label them from their own incident. Thanks.

Note that much of the mainstream news media has adopted a policy of showing "representative illustrations". Like AOL for example, they will publish a photo of a completely irrelevant train accident when writing about the subject. Thus the interior photos of the October New Hyde Park incident to illustrate yesterday's Brooklyn derailment. Of course the caption makes no note of the actual date or location of the photo. Another ploy is "illustrative grief interviews," where paid actors offer interviews expressing horror, desired political outrage or grief. The unwary believes these are actual photos and witnesses to the incident. The outlet gets the drama it needs, the editorial direction it seeks at a much lower cost.

Virtually all the TV networks have switched to this style of reporting as have many of the daily newspapers. In another age it would simply be called dishonest lies. Be aware that what you are shown or told may have very little or nothing at all to do with the facts or the news story.

AMEN!!!! Well stated!

Kelly&Kelly wrote:Be aware that what you are shown or told may have very little or nothing at all to do with the facts or the news story.

We rely on you, our posters, to be accurate. The photo removed stated it was from the accident; we removed it because another poster said it was from an October accident. Know what you post; help all to be better educated in our passion and/or profession.

Regarding the NTSB info brief that the train was speeding and going 'twice the speed limit' I see the papers running away with this. While technically true, the general public won't see 5 MPH as the speed limit. This is still a low-speed collision.

Also, regarding this 'railroad safety expert' Carl Berkowitz, anyone know anything of him? Does he have railroad experience or is he a self proclaimed expert? He may know more than the NTSB or Chuck Schumer, who, however, I'm surprised we haven't seen yet.

Lastly, what do you think they mean by the event recorder was "compromised" in the lead car? Seeing how it's physically in the mate A car, I doubt it sustained any physical damage.

Carl Berkowitz advertises himself as a professional engineer seeking "expert witness" work for lawsuits. His Web advertising cites railroad employment experience as a one-year stint with the New York City Transit Authority over fifty years ago: http://www.transportationexpertwitness. ... 14273.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. He's a nice fellow. Newsday is not considered a credible source for anything investigative, and its articles regarding the Brooklyn derailment contain many statements that are inaccurate, false or misleading. They generally reprint press releases and re-write other newspapers' stories with added emphasis on political viewpoints of their owners.

Here's a synopsis of the NTSB findings released this morning. They are in line with what most experienced railroaders would surmise and are centered around the engineer and his actions. A full mechanical examination of the equipment has not been made, though no mechanical exceptions have been claimed by preliminary inspections, rudimentary brake tests, event recorder findings or testimony of the crew.

The engineer had 18 years experience and is 50 years old. He has worked mostly night jobs in the past nine years. His tour began around midnight prior to the 8:15 am accident. This was the final revenue train, LI 2817 that he would be operating on his tour. The job usually operates an equipment train to Jamaica and finishes. He has no documented rules violations in his past.

This was his first tour worked after three day's rest.

The engineer stated that he recalled entering BROOK interlocking and slowing the train. He recalls entering the platform track. His next recollection was after the impact with the block.

Event recorder records indicate that the train was operating within 2 MPH of 10 MPH. Speed in the area is limited to 5 MPH, which is difficult to sustain accurately. The automatic speed control system limits speed there to 15 MPH, and the M7 MU equipment is equipped with an alerter system that requires periodic input from the engineer.

Newsday and the NTSB reported the lead car's event record was "mangled." This allegation is contrary to the data successfully downloaded from it.

Thanks!

Kelly&Kelly wrote:Newsday reported the lead car's event record was "mangled." This claim is incorrect and was added to the printed story for unknown reasons, perhaps to promote the demand for the acquisition of certain other equipment sought by legislators.

At the NTSB press conference yesterday, Ted Turpin reported that the event recorder in the lead car was "compromised horribly."