Atlantic Avenue Brooklyn Terminal

question is more like : why did FRA and NTSB order first MN to have second crew member in cab approching terminal, then after accident they extend same order to NJT ??
Sure LIRR is next, but will we need accident at MBTA, SEPTA, MARC, etc to go step by step towards making railroad safe ??

There's a piece of rail up inside the car. It appears to have bulldozed the bumper block out of the way And the front of the car is rammed up onto the cement platform. But it was moving slowly and "wasn't really a derailment". Got it.

How do you get a conductor into the cab when the locomotive is leading the train into a terminal? Should the conductor scale the locomotive like in Back To The Future 3?

Which would still require the conductor to leap from the passenger car onto the locomotive, then climb up/in?

leap ?? climb ?? its just like walking from one car to another.

Photos of the scene looks to me like a cab control car at front, not a locomotive. Is this the case?

litz wrote:..who wants to take a bet on how long it takes for a FRA Emergency Order requiring a full stop prior to entering any passenger station, following by a mandatory "walking" speed" approach .

My guess, Mr. Litz, is not long.

After the March 2014 "sleepy motorgirl" smack smack at O'Hare, there was a rule imposed, at what level I know not, that trains will make a complete stop before entering the platform area. I also do not know if that rule is imposed at other "end of tracks" about the CTA system, as to/from O'Hare is the only place I have occasion to ride.

pumpers wrote:What was the final speed at impact they decided on at Hoboken?
JS

For reference, I found the NTSB preliminary report on Hoboken.
"21 mph at time of collision with the bumping post"
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acci ... relim.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CarterB wrote:Photos of the scene looks to me like a cab control car at front, not a locomotive. Is this the case?

No locomotive or cab car, the terminal only sees MU cars in regular service.
train involved had Bombardier M-7 EMU's

Here's a pic from the Daily News (I downsized it to fit here).
I'm not familiar with Atlantic Terminal. Where is the bumping block? Is it in line with the end of the yellow stripe on the platform? Or is it further forward - perhaps the broken doors with a punch code lock are crew access to the crew compartment door at the front of the train?
Note the train in the opening above those doors.
JS

CarterB wrote:Photos of the scene looks to me like a cab control car at front, not a locomotive. Is this the case?

All LIRR trains to Brooklyn are EMUs. Passenger locos cant fit.

pumpers wrote:

NY Daily News.jpg

Here's a pic from the Daily News (I downsized it to fit here).
I'm not familiar with Atlantic Terminal. Where is the bumping block? Is it in line with the end of the yellow stripe on the platform? Or is it further forward - perhaps the broken doors with a punch code lock are crew access to the crew compartment door at the front of the train?
Note the train in the opening above those doors.
JS

From what I understand from news reports, the bumping block is at the farther end of the railing adjacent to the yellow stripe.

There is no access to the cab from the front of the train, Other than the barrel end door (especially when there is a bumping block there). Crews would not use that to access the cab. According to news reports the door with the broken glass is a small waiting room. The plate next to the door says employees only.

The train is in the opening above those doors because it rode onto the bumping block.

truck6018 wrote: According to news reports the door with the broken glass is a small waiting room. The plate next to the door says employees only.

The train is in the opening above those doors because it rode onto the bumping block.

If there are any similar employee or waiting rooms on other tracks, I bet they will be pretty empty in the future - right in the line of fire!

They're certainly darned lucky nobody was in there ...

Brooklyn, as we recall, has modified Heyes "Type WA" bumping posts. These are generally the strongest available in the industry. They are installed with "middle rails," which are two guard rails placed inside the rail gauge to help keep derailed truck or wheel-set guided straight and keep the rails in gauge if the block is struck. Anyone interested can find structural information at the manufacturer's site: http://www.wch.com/pdf/catalog/bpfacts.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Track 6 is the southernmost station track and has a capacity of six MU cars. The highest allowable speed for quite a distance is 5 MPH. The LIRR's automatic speed control system, which is operable in this area enforces the speed to a maximum of 15 MPH.

The concrete high level platform wraps immediately behind the bumping block. Photos show that the train probably traversed the block, which revolved under the pilot and lifted the front car body somewhat. It's possible that the car then came to rest at the concrete platform, which is usually what happens when trains over-run the blocks in Brooklyn.

Brooklyn is a particularly dangerous place for this type of incident as the majority of passengers walk up to disembark from the head car prior to its arrival in the station. On this train, most likely carrying about 450 passengers, the head car would have been crowded with standees awaiting to walk the fifty feet to access the IRT Subway upon arrival. The sudden stop would have knocked many people over and probably caused the reported injuries. After the train climbed atop the block and perhaps the concrete platform, its head car would have been elevated a foot or two making exiting difficult for the frightened passengers. Combined with the cloud of dust, smoke from shorted shoe fuses and some panicking passengers, it appears that one of the middle or running rails pierced the car body floor when the block was rotated under the train.

With this damage sustained, the riders were truly blessed to have avoided more serious injury.

Let's see what the investigation uncovers.

A kitchen timer. Engineer should set it for 5 minutes before "end of line" stations/tracks.

No human ever realizes they are going to fall asleep behind the wheel.

(Not saying that this was a case of anyone falling asleep. Just offering a small specific suggestion for a very real human condition.)