Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

jamesinclair wrote:

Disney Guy wrote:

jamesinclair wrote:And not opening the direct Blue Line entrance is a crime and the decision makers should be imprisoned

There would be no urge to open the Blue Line to street exit for passengers unless an elevator could be installed there for full accessibility's sake.

ADA does not require that every entrance have an elevator

I suppose that's true enough, but my understanding is that in truly "two-ended" stations, such as Scollay Under would be in this case, they want both ends to be accessible (not sure who they is), but it's come up in other contexts along the lines of: if Yawkey got a connection to the Beacon St overpass, the connection would need elevators, even though the current Yawkey Way entrance was already accessible. I'm not claiming any expertise, just that Gov Center isn't the only station where you'd wish it had a quick-and-dirty "other end" and the pattern (From chatter on the Indigo & GLX) seems to be that those other ends aren't happening because they'd require 2-elevators' worth of accessibility.

Misting underground is going to lead to mold problems. Did they install extra ventilation, HEPA air filters, or dehumidifiers?

If the curve is too sharp, redesign the station. Oh wait, they just did.

Also cause rust.

Why not spray a fine oil mist, instead of water mist, onto the curved track? No rust, no mold.

jamesinclair wrote:

Disney Guy wrote:

jamesinclair wrote:And not opening the direct Blue Line entrance is a crime and the decision makers should be imprisoned

There would be no urge to open the Blue Line to street exit for passengers unless an elevator could be installed there for full accessibility's sake.

ADA does not require that every entrance have an elevator

It may not require that every entrance have an elevator, but I'm pretty sure any station with two entrances is required to be fully accessible at both. I think the requirement is 60% of entrances or something like that.

Charliemta wrote:Why not spray a fine oil mist, instead of water mist, onto the curved track? No rust, no mold.

Being in a confined area (the station) I'd assume that it would be an inhalation hazard.

Arlington wrote:I suppose that's true enough, but my understanding is that in truly "two-ended" stations, such as Scollay Under would be in this case, they want both ends to be accessible (not sure who they is), but it's come up in other contexts along the lines of: if Yawkey got a connection to the Beacon St overpass, the connection would need elevators, even though the current Yawkey Way entrance was already accessible. I'm not claiming any expertise, just that Gov Center isn't the only station where you'd wish it had a quick-and-dirty "other end" and the pattern (From chatter on the Indigo & GLX) seems to be that those other ends aren't happening because they'd require 2-elevators' worth of accessibility.

Its all about maintain equal access. In the case of Yawkey, if disabled users have to go 10 minutes out of their way on a massive circuitous route, then access is not equal. However, in this case, it would be a 2 minute difference which would be warranted by engineering burdens, so it would be ok.

You have to justify the decisions and show you arent creating an undue burden for the disabled.

jamesinclair wrote:

Arlington wrote:I suppose that's true enough, but my understanding is that in truly "two-ended" stations, such as Scollay Under would be in this case, they want both ends to be accessible (not sure who they is), but it's come up in other contexts along the lines of: if Yawkey got a connection to the Beacon St overpass, the connection would need elevators, even though the current Yawkey Way entrance was already accessible. I'm not claiming any expertise, just that Gov Center isn't the only station where you'd wish it had a quick-and-dirty "other end" and the pattern (From chatter on the Indigo & GLX) seems to be that those other ends aren't happening because they'd require 2-elevators' worth of accessibility.

Its all about maintain equal access. In the case of Yawkey, if disabled users have to go 10 minutes out of their way on a massive circuitous route, then access is not equal. However, in this case, it would be a 2 minute difference which would be warranted by engineering burdens, so it would be ok.

You have to justify the decisions and show you arent creating an undue burden for the disabled.

What's the cost of an elevator over and above the stairs? Call it a million bucks.
What's the cost of justifying the decision to not build the elevator, considering the appeals and suits? Somewhere around $500k - $1m (thousands of billable hours at over $100 per). On top of that, there's the chance that the courts find that a 2 minute difference isn't warranted by the engineering burdens, in which case trying to build it without the elevator cost you $1.5m-$2m (and, importantly for a political organization, results in no small embarrassment).

Already leaking:

This was a good take on what happened.

http://www.masslive.com/news/boston/ind ... _cent.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope that's all it is, but any article that has a paragraph that starts off like this:

A number of feet away, a portion of the ceiling could be heard dripping onto the tracks, as a wet spot formed beneath an ad for New England Revolution soccer matches.

makes me worry about the journalistic integrity associated with the writing. If you can't even have an editor do you have a fact checker?

A long term fix would require re-waterproofing the top of the tunnel roof, which is 100 odd years old. This is impractical today because of the need to tear up the street and streetscape above.

Water leaks desiring similar treatment exist all over the system. A few others come to mind:
Maverick, west end over inbound track.
Downtown Crossing, east end of westbound Red Line platform.
Park St., middle of eastbound Red Line platform.
Tufts, middle of outbound platform (leaking when tunnel was less than 25 years old).l

After delays since the opening of Government Center - Dunk'n Donuts set to open in July.
https://twitter.com/JoePesaturo/status/ ... 739800064

"The MBTA announced in March 2017 that the company would be moving into the space inside of the station on City Hall Plaza. Plans originally called for it to open late that summer or early fall.

However, because of “a few factors,” a T spokesman said — namely the electrical and plumbing design work, and obtaining the permits for it — the project got pushed back." - globe article https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/ ... nt=event25

Now all they need to do is reopen that hot dog stand that used to be next to the stairs across from the Brattle Loop.