D&H South End Sale to NS - APPROVED 5/15/15

newpylong wrote:...My guess is when they begin improvements they will bring the controlled sidings up to 25 and then bring the MAS up to 50 mph on the main where appropriate like it used to be.

I think that is the current state of NS' ex-Erie Southern Tier line Buffalo to Binghamton.

Interesting tidbit I found:

"One item of interest was the potential for NS to acquire the trackage rights formerly assigned to D&H down the Hudson Line to access the Long Island interchange at Fresh Pond, N.Y. The STB responded in its explanation that those trackage rights were granted as a result of the 1999 Conrail break-up, and are not related to this most recent acquisition by NS."

bostontrainguy wrote:Interesting tidbit I found:

"One item of interest was the potential for NS to acquire the trackage rights formerly assigned to D&H down the Hudson Line to access the Long Island interchange at Fresh Pond, N.Y. The STB responded in its explanation that those trackage rights were granted as a result of the 1999 Conrail break-up, and are not related to this most recent acquisition by NS."

I was surprised/not surprised. This transaction is a straight-up line sale from one operator to another. STB wasn't looking to attach any kind of riders to the deal, since they first announced they considered this to be a "minor transaction." All of the requests for trackage rights and access for other operators were denied. Now, if NS had acquired the entire D&H, then perhaps we'd see more discussion about concessions and changes but I think the STB was pretty adamant about maintaining the status quo.

-otto-

Ott'os point makes sense. NS already had 58% of the former Conrail lines prior to the D&H purchase. Although most of the former D&H is not ex-Conrail (with Binghamton to Scranton being the exception), this acquisition expands NS's presence in the Northeast. I think the STB will examine any request by NS for additional trackage rights carefully in the Northeastern market, because it could hurt CSX's ability to effectively compete for the business.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

newpylong wrote:In the application they said the line is in good shape and they do not plan immediate substantial improvements. There aren't any 10s at all currently on the section they are buying any only 3 25 mph restrictions.

My guess is when they begin improvements they will bring the controlled sidings up to 25 and then bring the MAS up to 50 mph on the main where appropriate like it used to be.

50? So it's Class 4, not Class 3? (Or rather...not maximal-speed Class 4, but greater than max Class 3 speed.)

Correct. Many Class I mains are 50 mph freight, for example the B&A, Amtrak Conn River, D&H circa 2000, etc. Has to be maintained to Class IV even if max speed is not 60/80. That is why many railroads have cut back speeds to 25, if you have it 30 in the timetable it has to be maintained to the full Class III even if characteristics don't support that speed. For railroads that want 50 on the main the performance benefits outweigh the "over-maintenance".

I heard today that the actual change over won't happen until August, and the rumor mill has is that 40% of the CP people are lossing their jobs. That is a real bummer.

ricebrianrice wrote:I heard today that the actual change over won't happen until August, and the rumor mill has is that 40% of the CP people are lossing their jobs. That is a real bummer.

That always happens when new owners come in. First it's the stormtroopers doing scorched-earth, then inevitably some guys get quickly hired back when they're gap-plugging the staffing ranks back full. Been happening with mergers and sales since the dawn of time. It sucks for those who get caught standing when the music stops, but they're professionals, their skill set is sought-after so most will land on their feet, and they know it's an inherent job hazard in the industry and to roll with the punches.


Just wait till NS finally buys out Pan Am's 50% of PAS. That's gonna be way more than a 40% cleaning-house.

ricebrianrice wrote:I heard today that the actual change over won't happen until August, and the rumor mill has is that 40% of the CP people are lossing their jobs. That is a real bummer.

They should have NY Dock protection for 6 years if the Unions did their job, the question is how many who live south that wont be rehired by NS are willing to move north?

Where are the NS radio dispatchers located?
What possible frequencies might they use
for the former D&H South End? Thanks...

NS got new FCC licenses for the former D&H radio sites.

Road sites such as Belden Hill are 160.695, 161.175 and 161.475.

Yard sites such as Conklin are 160.890, 161.235 and 161.475.

There are pending applications for 160.695 for some detector sites.

The control point (dispatcher) is listed as Harrisburg on the licenses.

It looks like the former CP/D&H 160.425 Dispatcher and 160.530 Yard frequencies have changed and 161.475 remains as-is.

Talking with my new NS rep today, he said the new date for the change over is 12:01 am Sept 19th.

Customer Station Bulletin



Sale of the D&H South / Vente de la ligne du sud de D&H
Customer Bulletin – Sale of the D&H South

As you may be aware, Delaware and Hudson Railway Company Inc. (D&H), a subsidiary of Canadian Pacific, is in the process of selling its railroad between Schenectady NY and Sunbury PA (the “D&H South”) to Norfolk Southern Railway Company (NS). The map below identifies the territory subject to sale more specifically.






The sale is currently expected to close on Friday, September 18. As part of the transaction, CP will no longer have rights on NS between Buffalo, NY and Binghamton, NY to serve customers on connecting shortlines. CP will also be terminating trackage rights beyond Sunbury to Bethlehem and Allentown PA among other points. NS will however, provide haulage for CP to the following Pennsylvania shortlines:

•Reading & Blue Mountain Railroad at Taylor, PA
•Lycoming Valley Railroad, North Shore Railroad, Shamokin Valley Railroad, Nittany and Bald Eagle Railroad and the Union County Railroad at Northumberland, PA
•Delaware Lackawanna Railroad at Taylor, PA
•Luzerne and Susquehanna Railroad at Avoca, PA
•Lehigh Valley Rail Management LLC/Philadelphia Bethlehem and New England Railroad at Bethlehem, PA
•Steelton & Highspire Railroad Company at Harrisburg, PA



Due to the sale, new routes must be created for existing rate authorities for any traffic billed on or after September 19 to, from or through D&H South stations. CP will arrange to create new routes involving NS for all traffic originating on CPRS and destined to NS stations in existing rate authorities. NS will be creating new routes for traffic originating on NS. Most existing through rates will remain in effect. You should be aware, however, that while most base rates will not change at closing, fuel surcharge will be assessed based on the applicable provisions for any new route.


For all traffic originating on CP on or after September 19 and destined to or through stations on the D&H South, shipments will need to be routed CPRS – NS. CP and NS will use the gateways of Chicago, Buffalo and Schenectady for traffic to or from the D&H. If you require assistance in updating your shipment data, please contact Customer Service at 1-888-333-8111. If you require assistance in updating your billing information, please contact eBusiness at 1-888-333-8111 or [email protected].


In general, the new gateways will be as follows:


Between Quebec, the Maritimes and NY state north of Schenectady and NS: Schenectady, NY

Between Ontario and Illinois and NS: Buffalo, NY

Between Western Canada and the US west of Illinois and NS: Chicago, IL


There are a few exceptions to the above. For further information on the routes, please contact your CP representative or Customer Service.


For traffic originating on NS on or after September 19, please contact your NS representative.


We will be providing further information as we get closer to closing. We look forward to serving your transportation needs.

ricebrianrice, is what you posted above a CP published Customer Station Bulletin that is available only to those (customers?) who have a CP customer station profile?

http://www.cpr.ca/en/customer-resources ... er-station

When was this published? Thanks.

Does this mean CP will not have a yard presence in Buffalo anymore?

CP's presence at SK Yard has been minimal in recent years anyway. The only CP-related traffic on the Tier is 38T and 39T. i rarely see CP power on NS in greater Buffalo. It has been reported that the NS/CP interchange point will move from greater Buffalo to Mohawk Yard, which means the end of 38T and 39T when NS takes over the D&H.