End of the Line????

First off, Amtrak is the only passenger operater that has rights to run on
freight railroads all over the country. No other operator has those rights,
could they get them, maybe and maybe not, it might be more expensive
than what Amtrak pays now. The freight railroads don't particularly like
Amtrak but I think they would rather have Amtrak than some other
unknown.
I agree that there are at least a couple of "dogs" that may well come off
but lets realize that most of Amtrak's delays are due to the freight railroads and not due to Amtrak.
I still think if Amtrak had the degree of support that passenger trains have
in most other civilized countries and the cooperation of the freight railroads, boy what a system we could have here too.
Noel Weaver

If it were a matter of common sense, or justice, or fairness, Amtrak would get some badly-needed funding and stay in business. But since it's politics, fairness and common sense do not prevail. And it's not exactly red vs blue states, anthough that's part of it. It seems that individual congressmen and senators like Amtrak, but the administrations since Amtrak's creation (mostly republican, but including Carter and Clinton) have wanted to get rid of it. For the last 35 years or so, Presidents have been more pro-business than in the 35 years before that, and businesses don't want to see tax money spent on socially-useful programs. The highway program seems to be the exception, because it benefits the oil and car businesses so much. So, short of a change in the zeitgeist, where we become more European in our outloook, I think Amtrak will die a lingering death, with LD services withering year by year. I don't think LD service will be ended by any government decree, I just think the money for the service, and for fixing and rebuilding rolling stock, just won't be there. And, I think one of these days--I predict in the next year--Mr Gunn will decide he's taken too much crap for too little payoff, and go back to retirement in Canada.

With so many urgent problems facing this country, the talk of eliminating Amtrak is like talking about changing the living room drapes while ignoring the electrical fire in the attic, and the busted water main in the basement.

But the politics of disraction play well in the US, where the "big story" tends towards moronic pablum like "the runaway bride".

I wonder, however, if Amtrak is a big enough distraction.

I think this will come to a head before Bush leaves office. If you follow his pattern, his goal is to privatize the portion of Amtrak that makes money, while leaving the unprofitable part in the hands of local government.

Anotherwards, the NEC ops will go to a private operator, the infrastructure will go into a quasi-government entity, and the LD's will go out the window, maybe except for the auto-train.

Something will have to change, every year we're losing more and more, both nationally and locally (commuter transit systems). I don't see how states will be able to fund it as they can't even fund their local transit authorities (look at PA). The NEC, Empire Service and a handful of other routes won't go away. That's a given. The LD's are done.

You would think we would have learned our lesson from the '70's.

updrumcorpsguy wrote: I wonder, however, if Amtrak is a big enough distraction.

While the unrest in Iraq and the social security crisis are indeed more important issues to address, I'm afraid Amtrak isn't nearly a big enough distraction as, say, the Michael Jackson trial, or almost any other form of that ghastly scourge known as "info-tainment" which somehow masquerades as "news" these days...

jfrey--which part of Amtrak makes money?

Joe, I'm sure if you separated the infrastructure from the actual train runs, they probablly do turn a buck. When you factor in maintenance, MOW, etc. sure it loses. I'm just looking at Bush's MO and I think its pretty clear that if there is anything in Amtrak that he can hand over to private industry for the purpose of promoting capitalism, he'll do it.

Let's be clear: certain trains will always be running, lets say the NEC for argument sake. If Amtrak goes under, the FEDS will do something to reorganize how its operated and who does it. Its absurd to think that if Amtrak goes under, the NEC will become a barren abandoned hiking trail.

Whoa, Red Rider.....

What do you think happened 34 years ago May 1? Yep, the United States Government "did something" to reorganize how passenger rail was operated and who does it.

It's called the National Railroad Passenger Corporation ... a Corporation formed by Federal law within the District of Columbia.

As far as the Northeast Corridor goes, remember, all politics is local: Just try taking away my pork roast (the CZ and the SW Chief) from out here in flyover country. Rest assured I will write my Congresscritter and Senators to vote away your bacon (operations on the NEC).

I'll pay a few pennies from my overall tax burden to support a nationwide system. I'll make Mr Lincoln scream from pain if folks try to foist a Federal regional operation on the rest of the Nation.

John Perkowski
Uttery Cynical

jfrey40535 wrote:<snip>

If Amtrak goes under, the FEDS will do something to reorganize how its operated and who does it.

John_Perkowski wrote:
As far as the Northeast Corridor goes, remember, all politics is local: Just try taking away my pork roast (the CZ and the SW Chief) from out here in flyover country. Rest assured I will write my Congresscritter and Senators to vote away your bacon (operations on the NEC).

If Amtrak goes under, the FEDS will do something to reorganize how its operated and who does it.

Actually it's interesting, as someone who does 95% of his riding on the Empire Corridor, I'm more worried about the national system than my own little piece of the pie.

While I'd prefer Amtrak to continue to run the Empire Service trains, I know worse comes to worse, NY State or SOMEONE will find a way to pick up the tab. The corridor is too important.

But, I often have a hankering, business or otherwise, to travel to other places, and for that I want a robust rail system. So, I'm with John, if my Federal dollars are going to go to Amtrak (or something afterwards) I too will want them to play in Peoria as well as locally.

What do you think happened 34 years ago May 1? Yep, the United States Government "did something" to reorganize how passenger rail was operated and who does it.

It's called the National Railroad Passenger Corporation ... a Corporation formed by Federal law within the District of Columbia.

Yes, I think we all know what Amtrak is, thanks for the refresher though.

I never mentioned in my post that the system shouldn't be national. Unfortunately, its so far degraded now, is it possible to make it useful again? I live in Philly, and losing the 3 Rivers was a big blow. No more direct Chicago service, want to go to Altonna? Fine, but now I must make it an overnight trip.

Part of the point I was trying to make is that while Bush/Mineta and co. want to reorganize Amtrak, privitive it, or whatever, the NEC and other major services will remain. The LD's are of course in jeapordy, as they have always been. I do not endorse the idea. There's plenty of money for Amtrak, its just that Congress and the White House can't agree on anything, and if the bulk of the money is funding something like the NEC, sure its not fair to the rest of the country.

However, also consider that its not the only case where your tax money is going to benefit someone else. Look at all the Homeland Security money that's being used to buy radiation suits for small towns in Utah while NYC and Philly are cutting back on Police because of funding. Its not that big cities get less money for security, its just that the smaller towns have nothing better to spend the money on, so they do get something more out of it than the big cities do.

In any case, there really is no point to Amtrak if it can't be national.

Amtrak will come out of this with it's full funding we all need to write to our Congressman. Desprite what some people say Amtrak needs everyone's help.

Here is the way I think things will play out if Amtrak is eliminated.

The Northeast Corridor will survive. I also think that other regional service that feeds major cities along the northeast corridor will survive and even expand and improve. The main reason is that bringing a car into cities like Washington, Philadelphia, New York and Boston is a hassle with parking, traffic and everything else. A business traveler from Richmond would be more willing to use Amtrak to go to DC if the ontime performance could come close to what it is on the corridor.

Other regional corridors and hubs will emerge as well. Most of us realize that the days of $1.50 per gallon gasoline is gone. Many cities no longer have the room to improve their freeway systems to accomodate more cars.

Most long distance trains will mostly be a thing of the past, though several of the better patronized ones will survive and be jointly operated by two or more regional services. Of the long distance trains I've traveled recently, the majority of the passengers traveling for more than six hours on the train were people who don't own cars or railfans. At most, fifty percent of the seats were filled. If the long distance trains were to disappear bus companies would probably pick up the slack for those who don't own cars. Companies catering to railfans will offer long distance trips for those of us who like trains.

Camelback wrote: Of the long distance trains I've traveled recently, the majority of the passengers traveling for more than six hours on the train were people who don't own cars or railfans. At most, fifty percent of the seats were filled.

Maybe in coach. Try booking sleeper space on any of the long distance runs!

I cannot imagine the Auto Train or even the popular Silver Star and Silver Meteor going away. I think the Crescent enjoys strong ridership and support as well.

AmtrakFan wrote:Amtrak will come out of this with it's full funding we all need to write to our Congressman. Desprite what some people say Amtrak needs everyone's help.

Huh? You say Amtrak will get their full funding. Then what are we writing our Congressmen about? Or did I misunderstand your post?

hsr_fan wrote:I cannot imagine the Auto Train or even the popular Silver Star and Silver Meteor going away. I think the Crescent enjoys strong ridership and support as well.

The Auto Train is one of the better patronized long distance trains. But of the other long distance trains, what is the percentage of travelers going from the beginning to the end versus those who travel only a portion of the trip?

Regional entities would not necessarily mean the end of long distance trains. The better patronized trains would be jointly operated. The ones which are not well patronized would be replaced by regional service where there is a demand.

I think the demand for rail will increase in the next 20 years despite the current political climate. But the demand will be for higher speed, regional corridors.