Potential for Major Service Restorations Discussion

The Memphis City Council has passed a resolution calling for an expansion of Amtrak service to and from Chicago.

More from the Memphis Commercial Appeal:

Rail resolution wins final approval

Council members voted 10-0 to pass a resolution of support in favor of expanding Amtrak rail service between Memphis and Chicago.

Currently, only two Amtrak trains depart Memphis each day: one to Chicago and one to New Orleans. The resolution calls for doubling the traffic on the Memphis-Chicago section so Memphis would have two arrivals and two departures.

Local governments along the proposed route are considering resolutions of support to send to state governments, which direct train routes less than 750 miles, said Amtrak representative Thomas L. Stennis III. Stennis said the Memphis resolution of support for the project will be sent to the Tennessee Department of Transportation, which would handle next steps.

gokeefe wrote:The Memphis City Council has passed a resolution calling for an expansion of Amtrak service to and from Chicago.

More from the Memphis Commercial Appeal:

Rail resolution wins final approval

Council members voted 10-0 to pass a resolution of support in favor of expanding Amtrak rail service between Memphis and Chicago.

Currently, only two Amtrak trains depart Memphis each day: one to Chicago and one to New Orleans. The resolution calls for doubling the traffic on the Memphis-Chicago section so Memphis would have two arrivals and two departures.

Local governments along the proposed route are considering resolutions of support to send to state governments, which direct train routes less than 750 miles, said Amtrak representative Thomas L. Stennis III. Stennis said the Memphis resolution of support for the project will be sent to the Tennessee Department of Transportation, which would handle next steps.

This is good to see, more places want trains.

And I think even doubling starts to show folks hey, the train isn't just a rare thing scheduled at a bad time.

With two trains a day, you can make it far easier to have at least ONE train schedule work for someone.

What impresses me about this is that it is even a topic of discussion at all. Notice too the unanimous support. That is not a given by any means.

I think this will in fact make officials within the state government situp and take notice.

The problem is you cannot realistically hit any of those cities with a service that could be considered "convenient". Until Amtrak can establish more of these corridors successfully out of Chicago, then more complex routings to places outside of hubs will happen.

That being said, hopefully Tennessee can take a step forward with this and get this done.

electricron wrote:

gokeefe wrote:What impresses me about this is that it is even a topic of discussion at all. Notice too the unanimous support. That is not a given by any means.

I think this will in fact make officials within the state government situp and take notice.

Really? Let's count all the large cities in Tennessee with daily Amtrak service. Memphis and uh, uh, uh, oh!
Golly, if the State of Tennessee was going to start subsidizing daily Amtrak trains, don't you think cities such as Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga would rate higher priority?

Perhaps, but is it easier to double service on an existing line, or add completely NEW service in an area that hasn't seen service in decades.

I'd love a WAS-Chattanooga train (I'd take that over the Crescent) but it's not going to happen any time soon.

gokeefe wrote:What impresses me about this is that it is even a topic of discussion at all. Notice too the unanimous support. That is not a given by any means.

I think this will in fact make officials within the state government situp and take notice.

This will go nowhere until a new transportation bill is passed. TN already cut /delayed $400M in projects due to the short funding year.
The only thing good is to have another group at TDOT to look at the service. If they get the money maybe in 10 years.

We have already addressed that "resolutions cost nothing" as well as two states with practically no track record of funding passenger service (Last time I checked Nashville's Music City Star service "isn't doing too well"), we forget track capacity along the CN (IC). It really was a "next Quarter's whisper number" decision that had the second track ripped up on the IC, and so far as passenger train operations go, resulted in the "weird" operating practice of backing into or out of a siding already occupied with other traffic e.g. a SB freight occupies a siding waiting for NB traffic to clear. A SB passenger also pulls into same siding waiting for same NB traffic. Then SB passenger backs out of the siding and runs around the SB freight. You wouldn't see that "back in my day" as a student at Champaign; the whole railroad would be given to the Panama Limited.

Capacity issues are lessened between Edgewood IL and Fulton KY as the primary routing is over the "Cutoff" that X's the Ohio River at "Superman's City' (Metropolis), but then the same issue would prevail Fulton to Memphis. The best way to ensure more passenger trains along that "College Corridor" would be to relay the second track with public funds. Illinois has done "mighty well" during the Obama years, but with first an incoming Republican Governor and then in '17, a President with either only tangential connections to Illinois (Hillary) or one with none whatever (any Republican "thinking about it" that comes to mind), best start thinking "drought" around these parts.

If Memphis is serious, they should start by sponsoring a bus, the same way that Roanoke VA did.

It is a 3.5hour drive up I-55 from MEM to CDL (vs 4.5 on the CONO)

A bus starting from MEM at 10am could make the connection to the Saluki at 1:45pm and then wait for the Illini to arrive at 4:15 and get those people home to MEM by 8pm. Bus. It's like a train, but faster, and cheaper, and a great starter kit for new markets.

The state of Illinois should want to run the Illini and Saluki all the way to Memphis--it could practically pay for itself by simply filling what are now "empty backhaul" seats on the lopsided Chicago-anchored routes. The same way that Maine sponsors the Downeaster through NH (where individual cities sponsor their stations) and Mass (which provides only stations and MBTA-as-host-road help), Illinois could/should help the Illini&Saluki press onward through KY to Tennessee. And a lot of equipment is free: "created" by starting earlier at the ends and returning later (starting from MEM and 5am and getting back at 12mid, for example).

Gilbert B Norman wrote:[Single track / strange siding passing] would prevail Fulton to Memphis. The best way to ensure more passenger trains along that "College Corridor" would be to relay the second track with public funds. Illinois has done "mighty well" during the Obama years, but with first an incoming Republican Governor and then in '17, a President with either only tangential connections to Illinois (Hillary) or one with none whatever (any Republican "thinking about it" that comes to mind), best start thinking "drought" around these parts.

Agreed. It'd be nice if the whole train could make better time than ~35mph while in TN (that's 2.5hours between the two TN stops, 86 miles apart). This is the kind of capital project that the State of Tennessee should pay for more for its freight benefits than its passenger.

Then the thing Memphis should stump up for would be layover facilities at MEM.

I would like to see a resoration of a NYP-CHI via, Philly, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Toledo kind of like the 3 Rivers but leave NYP at 10pm and run overnight to Pittsburgh. then run in daylight across Ohio. if that is not doable how about a Toledo, PGH, PHL, NYP? that of course would require some money from OHIO. At the very least there should be a second pennsylvanian, and that was in fact in PRIIA.

Arlington wrote:If Memphis is serious, they should start by sponsoring a bus, the same way that Roanoke VA did.

It is a 3.5hour drive up I-55 from MEM to CDL (vs 4.5 on the CONO)

A bus starting from MEM at 10am could make the connection to the Saluki at 1:45pm and then wait for the Illini to arrive at 4:15 and get those people home to MEM by 8pm. Bus. It's like a train, but faster, and cheaper, and a great starter kit for new markets.

The state of Illinois should want to run the Illini and Saluki all the way to Memphis--it could practically pay for itself by simply filling what are now "empty backhaul" seats on the lopsided Chicago-anchored routes. The same way that Maine sponsors the Downeaster through NH (where individual cities sponsor their stations) and Mass (which provides only stations and MBTA-as-host-road help), Illinois could/should help the Illini&Saluki press onward through KY to Tennessee. And a lot of equipment is free: "created" by starting earlier at the ends and returning later (starting from MEM and 5am and getting back at 12mid, for example).

Gilbert B Norman wrote:[Single track / strange siding passing] would prevail Fulton to Memphis. The best way to ensure more passenger trains along that "College Corridor" would be to relay the second track with public funds. Illinois has done "mighty well" during the Obama years, but with first an incoming Republican Governor and then in '17, a President with either only tangential connections to Illinois (Hillary) or one with none whatever (any Republican "thinking about it" that comes to mind), best start thinking "drought" around these parts.

Agreed. It'd be nice if the whole train could make better time than ~35mph while in TN (that's 2.5hours between the two TN stops, 86 miles apart). This is the kind of capital project that the State of Tennessee should pay for more for its freight benefits than its passenger.

Then the thing Memphis should stump up for would be layover facilities at MEM.

There seems to be a lot of padding in the schedule from Carbondale to Memphis (sb train has lately made up significant time between Fulton and Memphis). So there may not be as much need for track upgrades south of Fulton.

While I think extending another train to Memphis is a good idea, I doubt Illinois will ever pay for it. The state's primary interest is in providing service to Illinois residents. (As was noted in another thread, improvements, esp. 110mph running, on the Chicago-St. Louis line are very much weighted to the northern, intrastate portion of that route). A Memphis extension would, I think, mostly serve Tennessee residents.

Also, I'm not at all sure that extending to Memphis is a financial slam-dunk for Illinois. I'm not an expert, but you could get hit with extra inspection/servicing requirements (Memphis is more than 125 mi. from Carbondale) on top of added crew, fuel and trackage charges. Also, starting the trains in Memphis is likely to result in even more late trains in Illinois (the longer the route, the greater chance of delay). And depending on Memphis patronage, there could be fewer seats for Illinois riders, especially on peak travel days. Finally, and admittedly this is a small factor, a few servicing/cleaning jobs in Carbondale would be lost to Memphis. For all these reasons, Tennessee's got to pay for it.

I don't think the DE is a good comparison. Maine wanted service to Boston. New Hampshire is between Maine and Boston, so adding stops there did really did not cost much, as the trains would be running there regardless. Memphis, however, is not between Carbondale and Chicago.

lirrelectrician: I don't think you'll find too many people who disagree around these parts. A third (fourth, counting the Cardinal) daily turn between NYP and CHI would be a boon to both Chicago and New York hub operations, and would make clean-up operations from missed west coast connections that much easier. It isn't a fast enough route for an all-daylight train, but it could certainly be a second-morning arrival eastbound with mostly-daylight service west of PGH.