The Flying Yankee

He're a better idea... Junk the thing. It isn't worth it at this point, and there's too much BS surrounding it to get donors to open their wallets. Does it seem cold? Ya. Is it far more practical then letting the thing sit around in pieces? Absolutely.

That is a little harsh Dylan. There have been some issues with the restoration that have been relayed here, but not enough to scrap it. It is easy to look back now and say this should have been done or that should have never happened, but in reality we were not there so don't know exactly what is happening. We can only hope the restoration continues at some point.

Mike

I certainly hope irt does...
Hey look, man, I know how easy it can be to get frustrated when something doesn't go right repeatedly, but look at how long the 3713 has taken, yet now Steamtown has front-burnered it for it's next operational locomotive.
Things change dude. Sometimes you eat the bear and some times he eats you.

Were there any FY Open Houses in Lincoln this year, or are there any still scheduled? I can't find any related info on the Hobo RR website. IIRC last year the last one was in October.

Cosmo wrote:I certainly hope irt does...
Hey look, man, I know how easy it can be to get frustrated when something doesn't go right repeatedly, but look at how long the 3713 has taken, yet now Steamtown has front-burnered it for it's next operational locomotive.
Things change dude. Sometimes you eat the bear and some times he eats you.

But the main difference between the two is that one is making actual progress, while the other one is progress neutral... One has people working on the project regularly, while the other sits around most of the time and takes up space on the Clark's property.

Get Iowa Pacific interested, the FY will be up and running in a month.

Otto Vondrak wrote:Get Iowa Pacific interested, the FY will be up and running in a month.

And why would Ed Ellis want anything to do with the Yankee? It's in pieces, needs easily in the high six digits to get fully working, FRA and AAR certification, prime mover (because someone had the great idea of butchering the 201A), modern air brakes, trucks need to get put back on... Like I said, I know it's harsh, but as far as I'm concerned the Yankee isn't worth the effort. And no, pigs didn't start flying now that I've started supporting the scrap option...

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If a wink smiley isn't a romantic hint between two folks, it often means SARCASM and SNARK.

That is all.

daylight4449 wrote:

Otto Vondrak wrote:Get Iowa Pacific interested, the FY will be up and running in a month.

And why would Ed Ellis want anything to do with the Yankee? It's in pieces, needs easily in the high six digits to get fully working, FRA and AAR certification, prime mover (because someone had the great idea of butchering the 201A), modern air brakes, trucks need to get put back on... Like I said, I know it's harsh, but as far as I'm concerned the Yankee isn't worth the effort. And no, pigs didn't start flying now that I've started supporting the scrap option...

Seriously, Dylan? Are you trying to school me on railway preservation and the economics of equipment restoration? Seriously?

I. WAS. BEING. SARCASTIC. Thanks for ruining the joke.

Furthermore, your off-the-cuff remark that the FY should simply be scrapped because work isn't progressing fast enough for you is just childish. While no appreciable work has taken place in years, the FY is safer now than it was in its 40-plus years of outdoor "display." Scrapping this historic piece benefits no one.

Think twice before you start publishing damning statements like these on a public forum, Dylan. Words have meanings.

Sincerely,

-otto-

You are right Otto, words do have meanings. And I do believe that at this point, as depressing as it is, the Yankee is better off in the scrap heap... We have finite resources, and far more worthy projects than a streamliner that has been royally been mismanaged and hasn't been touched. Eventually the Yankee could get thrown out, someone in the state will propose that it's sold for junk, you know the drill. How much of RMNE's stuff stands to end up in a junk yard because of the conditions and lack of available funding? Or Danbury's, or CT Eastern's? The Yankee could have been running by now if the whole project was properly managed. And now what? Work's only getting done when the Clark Family decides to foot the bill. But with all of the know facts and all the known problems, who would willingly invest in it? If you really want to save it, get it away from the State, and get a group together with a decent business plan and investors behind them. Otherwise, she's done.

daylight4449 wrote:You are right Otto, words do have meanings. And I do believe that at this point, as depressing as it is, the Yankee is better off in the scrap heap... We have finite resources, and far more worthy projects than a streamliner that has been royally been mismanaged and hasn't been touched. Eventually the Yankee could get thrown out, someone in the state will propose that it's sold for junk, you know the drill. How much of RMNE's stuff stands to end up in a junk yard because of the conditions and lack of available funding? Or Danbury's, or CT Eastern's? The Yankee could have been running by now if the whole project was properly managed. And now what? Work's only getting done when the Clark Family decides to foot the bill. But with all of the know facts and all the known problems, who would willingly invest in it? If you really want to save it, get it away from the State, and get a group together with a decent business plan and investors behind them. Otherwise, she's done.

Dylan, ... to quote The Big Lebowski :
"WHAT in God's Holy Name are you BLATHERING about?"

Cosmo wrote:

daylight4449 wrote:You are right Otto, words do have meanings. And I do believe that at this point, as depressing as it is, the Yankee is better off in the scrap heap... We have finite resources, and far more worthy projects than a streamliner that has been royally been mismanaged and hasn't been touched. Eventually the Yankee could get thrown out, someone in the state will propose that it's sold for junk, you know the drill. How much of RMNE's stuff stands to end up in a junk yard because of the conditions and lack of available funding? Or Danbury's, or CT Eastern's? The Yankee could have been running by now if the whole project was properly managed. And now what? Work's only getting done when the Clark Family decides to foot the bill. But with all of the know facts and all the known problems, who would willingly invest in it? If you really want to save it, get it away from the State, and get a group together with a decent business plan and investors behind them. Otherwise, she's done.

Dylan, ... to quote The Big Lebowski :
"WHAT in God's Holy Name are you BLATHERING about?"

Maybe I should offer a clearer thesis... We only have so much money, and so many people willing to provide that money. It's a common problem for any 501c(3). Now, what about people to work on the Yankee? Where are they? Last I checked the Clark's finished the weatherization on the Yankee. That costs them money, resources, etc. So, who's sending donations at the Yankee right now? I'm sure as hell not... And why would I? There's no clear business plan, the leadership is apparently absent from the public eye, and what sort of work (beyond the passive collection of dust) is being done to show that the funds are being properly used to further the "plan"?
And what manager on any railroad would in their right mind even consider letting that thing onto their property? You've got a highly specialized consist with little to no flexibility in what it can be used for, with few potential fail-safes. It doesn't matter what you throw under the hood at this point (unless the 201A has suddenly reassembled itself), if something breaks, it's not like there's a separate engine in the consist that can continue to move the train. Instead, you'd be holding up the traffic that makes money. Then the host has to waste their time sending an engine and crew to drag the whole set back to the destination. Soon, someone in the state will make the call to either get rid of the whole set, or junk it because of the amount of time and money that the state has put in. And will they get any return on that investment? I doubt it. Maybe it would make a good subject to be stuffed and mounted, but you'll never see that thing run... Same deal with plenty of other failed projects. It comes down to the need for proper management and willing volunteers, but who would bother with the thing? I've made plenty of stupid moves in recent years. The EB Depot, Seven Railroads NRHS, my involvement with PPAL... All crashed and burned in less that spectacular fashion. And you know what that's taught me? Unless you have a good plan, good contingencies and a well-rounded core group, you can't pull anything off. And there are some things that should just be done away with to save the time and resources for other more practical projects that are more flexible than an old streamliner that's been gutted and got screwed up when someone tried to put it back together.

daylight4449 wrote:I've made plenty of stupid moves in recent years. The EB Depot, Seven Railroads NRHS, my involvement with PPAL... All crashed and burned in less that spectacular fashion.

You know what that tells me?

You shouldn't get involved in any projects, clearly you are the bad omen. <-- THIS IS A JOKE

Can we return to a serious discussion of the Flying Yankee? Though I don't know what discussion there can be, since there has been (to the best of my knowledge) no appreciable progress to report in some time. No one here has any control over the project or its resources, and I think we've damned everyone who ever touched thing to Hell and back about twenty times over... I think we have to accept that until the people who control this project decide to change the situation, there's really not much to talk about, in my opinion.

-otto-

I think Otto and Dylan pretty much summed it up. Otto says there's not much to discuss at this point. And Dylan, like any practical businessman would, painted a picture of the reality. It's just a shame that people have poured money and labor into the project and may never realize a reward or financial benefit.

Consider all of the logistics. It would have to become FRA compliant. It would require a railroad to host its operation mixing it into their freight ops. (Good luck with that!) There would be insurance requirements at some very high premiums. There would need to be a demand for its use beyond excursions. Unless someone with VERY deep pockets came along with a passion, it won't happen.

At some point someone will have to make a decision about it. Yes, it could be stuffed and cosmetically enhanced for display. Or someone could realize a good chunk of money scrapping it to make tuna fish cans. That would be the most logical discussion.

I've heard the guy who owns the 1915 Porter in Palmer wants to get that running to operate locally. Right! I can dream too. It probably wouldn't pass a boiler test.

Some things do just belong in a museum.

If it's going to be trapped in mothballs ad infinitum it seems it could be wise to donate it to Conway Scenic as a static display protected in a shed for now. Down the road, (with proper funding of course) have it running on ROW it historically is connected to. Pipe dream? Probably, yet seems more realistic than waiting for a magic railroad fairy to bring it up to spec and having it running on Amtrak routes as a special gala train...