Waterbury Branch Thread

Announcement was made back on July 24th:
http://touch.courant.com/#section/-1/ar ... -80894301/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It'll be interesting to see if this forces the issue of the proposed Devon Jct. station.

M.D. is a gentleman and well respected on the NHL. Good choice on MNR's behalf.

Highly agreed!!!

R36 Combine Coach wrote:There is still a daily AM direct train - it changes numbers and designation at STM.

Not anymore. That changed with the May schedule change. Right now, the former thru train, #1923, at first operated to Bridgeport, discharged there, and deadheaded to South Norwalk, to which it became a Danbury turn (#1806). Now, it runs express after Bridgeport direct to Stamford. At Stamford, passengers transfer to a direct express to GCT (#1819 from Danbury).

Presently, I am the Conductor on #1923. The people were pissed when they made Bridgeport its last stop instead of it doing the 1923/1323 change at Stamford, a technical thru train from Waterbury to GCT. But the people were quite happy when the schedule was amended to run in service express to Stamford, where direct connections to the 7:18 express (#1819 from Danbury) give a good quick shot direct to GCT.

Don't they have one in the afternoon?? Leaving GCT at 11:34, making Stamford it's only stop, then 5 or so minutes later it leaves Stamford onto Bridgeport and then Waterbury. Even though it's not technically a "through" train and I'd guess people have to get off in Stamford, it's likely the same train.

7express wrote:Don't they have one in the afternoon?? Leaving GCT at 11:34, making Stamford it's only stop, then 5 or so minutes later it leaves Stamford onto Bridgeport and then Waterbury. Even though it's not technically a "through" train and I'd guess people have to get off in Stamford, it's likely the same train.

No, there's an afternoon run that starts in Stamford, but it's a mini.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I would never actually ride a direct Waterbury train. I need to get up and stretch my legs...and my butt starts to go numb. Shoreliner seats kinda suck for me after about an hour and a half.

runningwithscalpels wrote:

7express wrote:Don't they have one in the afternoon?? Leaving GCT at 11:34, making Stamford it's only stop, then 5 or so minutes later it leaves Stamford onto Bridgeport and then Waterbury. Even though it's not technically a "through" train and I'd guess people have to get off in Stamford, it's likely the same train.

No, there's an afternoon run that starts in Stamford, but it's a mini.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I would never actually ride a direct Waterbury train. I need to get up and stretch my legs...and my butt starts to go numb. Shoreliner seats kinda suck for me after about an hour and a half.

I'm with you there. I'm 6'3" and in a Shoreliner seat my knees are jammed into the back of the seat in front of me. Anything more than 1hr20 I start feeling uncomfortable. One of the (very many) reasons I'm skeptical of some of the "Metro-North to Hartford! Via the Highland! And to Pittsfield!" foamer-ish talk out there.

Pretty much all commuter rail cars are designed for 90-minutes-or-your-arse-starts-going-numb trips. Anything more than that and you need an intercity seating configuration. The fact that there isn't an in-between car configuration says a lot about the natural demand demand for trips longer than commuter rail but shorter than the average Amtrak state-sponsored route. And it's not just seating configuration. At 2 hours or more you really do need trains with more restrooms onboard, trains with some barebones food service even if it's just juice/water and peanuts, and trains with a little bit of room to stand and stretch without blocking aisles (and absolutely no 3 x 2 seating). Not everyone has the health profile, body type, or stamina to deal with that without escalating discomfort towards the end of the trip. That's why highway rest stops are spaced closer than 2-hour intervals and people with long commutes pull over at a gas station or stop at Dunkies (inside, not drive-thru) along the way. If there's a significant-enough size subset of the population that doesn't sit still for 2-hour intervals on the road and doesn't sit still for 2-hour intervals on a short-duration Boston-D.C. connecting flight...why is there an expectation that they'd do it on a commuter rail train configured for herding cattle?

This is why Cape Flyer in Massachusetts has a low-key snack car on every trip and grab bars in the bike cars convenient for standing and stetching. Yes, it's a weekender excursion with some public-private partnerships defraying the concessions cost, but until the track gets upgraded to 79 MPH from Middleboro to Buzzards Bay the trip to Hyannis is going to take 2-1/2 hours. Full Hyannis commuter rail would pretty much have to get on-Cape speeds to no less than what they were in the good state-of-repair NYNH&H days to get it inside the 90 minute commuter pain threshold by the skin of its teeth. And up here the T has a huge problem on its hands with South Coast Rail's godawful travel times which are pushing 90 mins. and probably are going to bust through that barrier the next time the way overoptimistic projected schedule gets revised down.


Granted, with the New Haven Line they've got a lot of opportunities to blend service patterns into an overlapping blur with short-turns and "semi-locals" that skip a few lighter-use stops without being true expresses. So it's not *that* big a deal if the demand for Devons and Oranges are overwhelming enough to go for. There just can't be ridiculous subway-like spacing or something has to give. Thankfully, there's not that big a short list past the Top 3 Most Wanted infills that meet that demand threshold; the second-tier wish list is miles behind and doesn't have sizable enough local push to really gain enough traction for statewide action. The natural limits of the NHL are more whether they're keeping up on infrastructure renewal to keep the service reliable and whether they've got a large enough supply of cars to run it all. Both question marks today for MNRR, but not necessarily permanent ones.

But short of *maybe* a Hartford-Bridgeport commuter run on Class 5 Springfield Line track--since that is the same 60 track miles as New Haven-Springfield--I can't see anything new outside of MNRR territory running thru a significant degree into MNRR territory. Much less go to GCT. It's too far past the arse-falling-asleep threshold for the full-length NHHS or SLE, and not enough of a commute market. More state-paid Springfield Regionals or Inland Regionals to Boston serves 100% of that need in Hartford County. And I bet if Hartford-Waterbury CR comes to fruition a few run-thru expresses to the Devon transfer terminal serves the needs of western Hartford Co. and southeastern Litchfield Co. just fine without a single train having to enter onto New Haven Line track.

runningwithscalpels wrote:I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I would never actually ride a direct Waterbury train.

MNR's #1 Conductor wrote:Presently, I am the Conductor on #1923. The people were pissed when they made Bridgeport its last stop instead of it doing the 1923/1323 change at Stamford, a technical thru train from Waterbury to GCT. But the people were quite happy when the schedule was amended to run in service express to Stamford, where direct connections to the 7:18 express (#1819 from Danbury) give a good quick shot direct to GCT.

How many passengers from Waterbury and the Naugatuck valley actually travel through to GCT? I would think the majority would be heading to jobs in Fairfield County. I like the present set up of #1923. Passengers can transfer at Bridgeport for intermediate stops between there and Stamford, or at Stamford for access to Westchester County and New York City. If the train ran through to GCT, I believe most passengers would come from the main line stops.

Bill

I'm a whole-way weekend rider to/from Naugatuck...it would be interesting to see how many people on 1923 do ride the whole way in during the week. Or even how many riders from the lower parts of the branch drive to mainline stations and go all the way in that might be swayed to ride the branch if there was a direct...

I mean, ya do what ya gotta do - but if I had to make that round trip commute on a daily basis, I'd be socking away money to move someplace closer ASAP.

Bottom line though, lack of through service isn't the branch's issue.

I attended the commuter meeting in Naugatuck Thursday night. There was a large turnout, about 60 people. Officials in attendance included CDOT Commissioner James Redeker, Metro-North's Mike Donnarumma and CT rail council member Jim Gildea, as well as Senator Blumenthal and several state senators and representatives. By the time it was over, my head was spinning! There were some facts, that no matter how many times were explained, that some people just did not grasp. Even though passengers want better service towards Stamford and New York, one person was offended that trains are now based in Stamford instead of New Haven. Mr. Donnarumma explained that based on mileage to Bridgeport, Stamford is only four miles more than New Haven, and that equipment failures were down 25% as a result of the change. This move also allowed the addition of a spare train set (shared with Danbury service). Some in attendance were demanding immediate hourly service, even though it was explained several times that the lack of passing sidings and signaling make this impossible. One suggestion was to operate in a triangle between Waterbury, Bridgeport and New Haven to increase service. Commissioner Redeker stated finally that even if every New Haven mainline train was eliminated, Waterbury service could not be increased as the line exists. The Commissioner also stated that if passengers wanted an immediate increase in service, it would have to be with supplemental express bus service. This did not sit well with many in attendance. (Which I can understand, given how political thinking in Connecticut changes as often as the weather.)

There were some sensible comments and suggestions though. They included: adding a South Norwalk stop on the first AM train (#1923), more Stratford stops and more weekend service. Some reasonable complaints included station conditions and snow removal, lack of ticket machines (it was explained that new ticket devices for conductors will allow for credit card payment), Train Time doesn't work on the branch (due to lack of signaling or other means of determining the train's exact location) and the train that becomes #1948 deadheads from Stamford to Bridgeport behind the mainline train instead of picking up passengers at Stamford and South Norwalk along the way.

Hopefully, the state will find ways to expedite funding to upgrade the line, so that the growing ridership on the branch is better served.

Bill

Bill D wrote: There were some facts, that no matter how many times were explained, that some people just did not grasp. Even though passengers want better service towards Stamford and New York, one person was offended that trains are now based in Stamford instead of New Haven. Mr. Donnarumma explained that based on mileage to Bridgeport, Stamford is only four miles more than New Haven, and that equipment failures were down 25% as a result of the change. This move also allowed the addition of a spare train set (shared with Danbury service). Some in attendance were demanding immediate hourly service, even though it was explained several times that the lack of passing sidings and signaling make this impossible.

That is exactly why I ended up not going on Thursday despite the fact that I live less than a mile away. I went to the one back in July at Derby station and there were some people who didn't get it about certain things. That said, Jim Gildea is doing a good job gathering people up to protest the crappy service on the line...I do sincerely hope CDOT and Metro North are listening to the valid complaints, and not the stupid ones like "we need new trains, the electric ones are new..." (That was one that came up at the Derby meeting that almost drove me up a wall.)

Has ConnDOT or MN given any kind of plan/timeline for signals/PTC work for the Waterbury Branch at
any of the meetings? Sooner or later,ConnDOT,MN, and LIRR might come up with the C-5 bi-level car design.

Surprisingly some sort of preliminary ditch digging was allegedly supposed to start this summer but got pushed back. I think that may have been for a signaled siding? That was the one shocking thing I learned at the original meeting. Of course in all the post-meeting emails, the particular thing I'm looking for is nowhere to be found =/

I believe whatever work that was *supposed* to commence this summer is now pushed back to next year.

Since the cutover of the final segment of the Danbury Branch to signals was full of glitches,ConnDOT and MN figured
that an rethink of the Waterbury plans was needed,and tack on the FRA nosing around after the DV wreck didn't help.
Any idea where this siding was to be built at?
Devon to Derby Jct was double track in the past.