Dual Modes For Montclair-Boonton?

My sincere apologies if this has been asked and answered elsewhere:

Since electrics bound for Manhattan originate/terminate in Montclair, why haven't these runs been extended (utilizing the dual mode locomotives) across the presently diesels only section from Montclair to Denville and thence perhaps further westward?

Since the trains are already slotted through the tunnels it wouldn't run afoul of capacity constraints. I'm certain the service would be slower than the busses from most of the stations west of Montclair but with the Route 23 Park and Ride now available and with sizable Manhattan commuter populations in towns such as Lincoln Park, Montville/Towaco, Boonton, and Mountian Lakes it would seem worth the effort.

With limited stop services the time could probably be pared down to something acceptable, though I'd imagine that whatever town got skipped by new Midtown Direct service would probably raise holy hell.

All of the Montclair NYP directs at this time are locals. The local stops in Montclair and Bloomfield would add to the running time for the Boonton/Wayne riders. Like the RVL, it could be worth an off-peak trial first. In fact, the expresses through Montclair are diesels via Boonton originating or terminating west of Dover.

Thank you. I had no idea anything ran through Montclair without making all stops.

The population of those parts of Morris and Passaic Counties traversed by the MB Line are somewhat more sparse than where the RVL runs causing me to wonder of there'd be enough demand for midday service. An evening train or three would be really nice, especially Friday through Sunday.

Maybe a train originating at Lake Hopatcong with stops at Mount Arlington, Dover, Mountain Lakes, Montville/Towaco, Lincoln Park, Route 23 and then all stops east (excluding Little Falls) would keeps times reasonable. I skip Boonton and Mountain View for lack of parking capacity or access issues as well as proximity to other stations. Little Falls I presume though I could be wrong, would be an easy hop to/from MSU or Route 23. I'm also skipping Denville as I'd imagine most people would prefer the faster run via the M&E.

Anecdote: I worked Denville tower shortly after Conrail took over, and westbound Boonton branch trains, with the U boats, gave me a charge, going through, full speed, non stop. It was a continuation of EL practice.

SemperFidelis wrote:Thank you. I had no idea anything ran through Montclair without making all stops.

The population of those parts of Morris and Passaic Counties traversed by the MB Line are somewhat more sparse than where the RVL runs causing me to wonder of there'd be enough demand for midday service. An evening train or three would be really nice, especially Friday through Sunday.

Maybe a train originating at Lake Hopatcong with stops at Mount Arlington, Dover, Mountain Lakes, Montville/Towaco, Lincoln Park, Route 23 and then all stops east (excluding Little Falls) would keeps times reasonable. I skip Boonton and Mountain View for lack of parking capacity or access issues as well as proximity to other stations. Little Falls I presume though I could be wrong, would be an easy hop to/from MSU or Route 23. I'm also skipping Denville as I'd imagine most people would prefer the faster run via the M&E.

For it to be worth it for us WORMS customers the trains would have to be express once they hit Montclair. Stop at MSU and Bay Street only. The start stop patterns every 40 seconds is actually really annoying and I make every effort to avoid taking those trains.

CentralValleyRail wrote:

SemperFidelis wrote:Thank you. I had no idea anything ran through Montclair without making all stops.

The population of those parts of Morris and Passaic Counties traversed by the MB Line are somewhat more sparse than where the RVL runs causing me to wonder of there'd be enough demand for midday service. An evening train or three would be really nice, especially Friday through Sunday.

Maybe a train originating at Lake Hopatcong with stops at Mount Arlington, Dover, Mountain Lakes, Montville/Towaco, Lincoln Park, Route 23 and then all stops east (excluding Little Falls) would keeps times reasonable. I skip Boonton and Mountain View for lack of parking capacity or access issues as well as proximity to other stations. Little Falls I presume though I could be wrong, would be an easy hop to/from MSU or Route 23. I'm also skipping Denville as I'd imagine most people would prefer the faster run via the M&E.

For it to be worth it for us WORMS customers the trains would have to be express once they hit Montclair. Stop at MSU and Bay Street only. The start stop patterns every 40 seconds is actually really annoying and I make every effort to avoid taking those trains.

I wonder if dual modes would be able to handle those close stops better than the PL's?

Speaking as to the idea of runnng the presently slotted trains express from MSU east, until such time when capacity enhancements open new slots into NY Penn, I am of the mind that Montclair would never accept any reduction in present service levels.

Though I understand and appreciate the frustration of using the Boonton Line, especially now that there are so many stops so closely spaced from Mountain View east that it feels more like a subway trip than commuter rail travel, I don't think the good folks in Montclair would ever accept one of "their" trains being taken for the WORMS. I think the best we can hope for, until we start seriously investing in our infrastructure to enhance capacity, would be extension of the runs and slow running times.

SemperFidelis wrote:Speaking as to the idea of runnng the presently slotted trains express from MSU east, until such time when capacity enhancements open new slots into NY Penn, I am of the mind that Montclair would never accept any reduction in present service levels.

Though I understand and appreciate the frustration of using the Boonton Line, especially now that there are so many stops so closely spaced from Mountain View east that it feels more like a subway trip than commuter rail travel, I don't think the good folks in Montclair would ever accept one of "their" trains being taken for the WORMS. I think the best we can hope for, until we start seriously investing in our infrastructure to enhance capacity, would be extension of the runs and slow running times.

As SemperFidelis said the only way for expanded service will be to invest in infrastructure, but for the time being why can't NJT look into how to decrease trip times. I would say upgrading crossovers and installing new interlocking locations. I think with that being the case, express trains would be able to run around locals at full speed if the crossovers were upgraded to 80mph turnouts.

NJTforever wrote:

SemperFidelis wrote:Speaking as to the idea of runnng the presently slotted trains express from MSU east, until such time when capacity enhancements open new slots into NY Penn, I am of the mind that Montclair would never accept any reduction in present service levels.

Though I understand and appreciate the frustration of using the Boonton Line, especially now that there are so many stops so closely spaced from Mountain View east that it feels more like a subway trip than commuter rail travel, I don't think the good folks in Montclair would ever accept one of "their" trains being taken for the WORMS. I think the best we can hope for, until we start seriously investing in our infrastructure to enhance capacity, would be extension of the runs and slow running times.

As SemperFidelis said the only way for expanded service will be to invest in infrastructure, but for the time being why can't NJT look into how to decrease trip times. I would say upgrading crossovers and installing new interlocking locations. I think with that being the case, express trains would be able to run around locals at full speed if the crossovers were upgraded to 80mph turnouts.

Do you really think Montclair will EVER allow 80 MPH zones in their town? That's more dreamy than my idea of reverse peak service.

CentralValleyRail wrote:

NJTforever wrote:

SemperFidelis wrote:Speaking as to the idea of runnng the presently slotted trains express from MSU east, until such time when capacity enhancements open new slots into NY Penn, I am of the mind that Montclair would never accept any reduction in present service levels.

Though I understand and appreciate the frustration of using the Boonton Line, especially now that there are so many stops so closely spaced from Mountain View east that it feels more like a subway trip than commuter rail travel, I don't think the good folks in Montclair would ever accept one of "their" trains being taken for the WORMS. I think the best we can hope for, until we start seriously investing in our infrastructure to enhance capacity, would be extension of the runs and slow running times.

As SemperFidelis said the only way for expanded service will be to invest in infrastructure, but for the time being why can't NJT look into how to decrease trip times. I would say upgrading crossovers and installing new interlocking locations. I think with that being the case, express trains would be able to run around locals at full speed if the crossovers were upgraded to 80mph turnouts.

Do you really think Montclair will EVER allow 80 MPH zones in their town? That's more dreamy than my idea of reverse peak service.

Since when are towns are allowed to dictate speed limits? I thought the railroads could run whatever speed the federal regulations allowed and ignore the towns completely in that case?

MattW wrote: Since when are towns are allowed to dictate speed limits? I thought the railroads could run whatever speed the federal regulations allowed and ignore the towns completely in that case?

Oh you'd be surprised. There is a reason why its called the Peoples Republic of Montclair. But seriously, down here where I run, the stretch of track on the old Southern through the City of Manassas USED to be 70mph....superelevated curves and all. Still in the timetable as such, but all the crossings in town now have 25-35 mph restrictions on them. Amazing what happens when a politician's kid gets killed by a train........

MattW wrote:

CentralValleyRail wrote:

NJTforever wrote:

SemperFidelis wrote:Speaking as to the idea of runnng the presently slotted trains express from MSU east, until such time when capacity enhancements open new slots into NY Penn, I am of the mind that Montclair would never accept any reduction in present service levels.

Though I understand and appreciate the frustration of using the Boonton Line, especially now that there are so many stops so closely spaced from Mountain View east that it feels more like a subway trip than commuter rail travel, I don't think the good folks in Montclair would ever accept one of "their" trains being taken for the WORMS. I think the best we can hope for, until we start seriously investing in our infrastructure to enhance capacity, would be extension of the runs and slow running times.

As SemperFidelis said the only way for expanded service will be to invest in infrastructure, but for the time being why can't NJT look into how to decrease trip times. I would say upgrading crossovers and installing new interlocking locations. I think with that being the case, express trains would be able to run around locals at full speed if the crossovers were upgraded to 80mph turnouts.

Do you really think Montclair will EVER allow 80 MPH zones in their town? That's more dreamy than my idea of reverse peak service.

Since when are towns are allowed to dictate speed limits? I thought the railroads could run whatever speed the federal regulations allowed and ignore the towns completely in that case?

Name me a spot where a train could do 80 in Montclair. That's like saying I wish a bus could go 75 on the helix part of 495.

cobra30689 wrote:

MattW wrote: Since when are towns are allowed to dictate speed limits? I thought the railroads could run whatever speed the federal regulations allowed and ignore the towns completely in that case?

Oh you'd be surprised. There is a reason why its called the Peoples Republic of Montclair. But seriously, down here where I run, the stretch of track on the old Southern through the City of Manassas USED to be 70mph....superelevated curves and all. Still in the timetable as such, but all the crossings in town now have 25-35 mph restrictions on them. Amazing what happens when a politician's kid gets killed by a train........

And that is reason number two if the infrastructure somehow allowed for that. You have quite a few gate crossing in Montclair with HIGH pedestrian traffic. (especially in the Summer).

And hey I'd love for that to happen, my commute would probably be cut in half if not quicker, but there are too many hurtles right now for that to happen.

Just look how long its been waiting for weekend service up to MSU.

Clearly the hoboken division needs some grade separation in these spots. Likelihood of that hapening, im not holding my breath. I think it's simply "is what it is" that most of the hoboken division retains an early railroad format of putting the lines through the middle of every town they cold connect the dots between for maximum patronage vs lots of straight lines & superhighway format seen on the more speed oriented PRR/C&A/JC newark division. The harlem line on MNRR has the same problem to a lesser extent, parts of LIRR have the issue too. If they can go faster, they should be allowed to in these areas. The fact that steam hauled trains had faster schedules in some of these spots is a terrible irony. One i hope we can fix some of...