#14 Orange Line Cars 1400-1551 (From Red/Orange Procurement discussion)

MBTA3247 wrote:

Orange Line cars would have to be shipped out by truck because there is no interchange with the main line. Other finished cars could leave by rail.

I wonder why they specified that? Neither the Orange nor the Red have intact connections to the main line rail network, but both are so close in places that it would be trivial to throw in a crossover.

That is interesting because the Orange Line could have it's connection restored very easily, as it's mostly still in place. Looking on Bing Birds eye view it shows the connection in place as of 2012.

Where on the orange line is this connection? Looking at aerial imagery I can't spot one on any of the surface portions of the line. I'd assume it would be somewhere around Wellington, but I don't see one anywhere.

Same reason everything gets trucked to Maine.

The connection was via the Wellington Branch overpass. The track on the west side of the OL ROW is still there, rusting away.

That's the Medford Branch overpass. I never knew that track was there, but it was very clearly for that purpose! I always thought the obvious connection would be at Oak Grove, but that would be an even easier hook up (and less intrusive).

The current fleet of cars was delivered via this connection.

Apparently one of the bidders is vowing to build a railcar assembly plant in Springfield:

"Prompted by their participation in the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA) request for proposal (RFP) for the Orange/Red Line Car Procurement, CNR CRC (Changchun) representatives today announced initial proceedings including their selection of Springfield for its rich manufacturing heritage, and development plans of a site initiating ongoing conversations of support with state, city, local, and community officials," Changchun said in a news release.

http://www.masslive.com/business-news/i ... y_pro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Worcester would be another choice, with the Osgood Bradley works (still standing) in town.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Worcester would be another choice, with the Osgood Bradley works (still standing) in town.

Well, a little bit of it stands anyway... what isn't occupied by Peterson Steel and several other industries, or torn down for the Price Chopper... not sure how suited it would be. Perhaps at least as suitable as the former Enprotech facility in Readville, where MBBs and Type 7s were assembled, or the facility in Littleton where the Type 8s were assembled, or any of who knows how many other "candidate" sites there may be in Massachusetts where railcars were, could be, or have been proposed to be assembled (note not BUILT, just assembled).

Seems there has been considerable focus on rail investment lately in the western portion of the Commonwealth, with the Knowledge Corridor investments et al, so having an assembly plant for an MBTA order of any kind in western Massachusetts fits the bill nicely, at least politically, showing investment in industry and jobs out there, and that the immediate Boston area is not the only place the Commonwealth where investment in rail and rail-related industry will go (ignore for the moment such a facility will produce subway cars FOR BOSTON - it's all about assembly jobs in Springfield). Logistically, having an assembly plant 100 miles from Boston is not going to be much different cost-wise than having one 50, or 30, or 10 miles away. Maybe something closer might save on line haul by truck (and these things will be trucked - the days of subway cars delivered by rail in Boston were over after the Boeings and UTDC 0600-01200 deliveries of the 1970s), but property and building leases and worker wages and tax breaks will surely make up for that. This Changchun outfit probably scored big on this announcement - politically they're in the right place at the right time, right now.

jwhite07 wrote:This Changchun outfit probably scored big on this announcement - politically they're in the right place at the right time, right now.

And that's what gives me the willies about the whole announcement. It sounds like "Hyundai-Rotem 2: Electric Boogaloo", except that this time the far-east manufacturer involved has even LESS of a global presence, from a country where the notions of "quality control", "accountability", and "ethical business practices" make Korea look like Germany or Denmark.

Let's hope the T has learned from the Breda and Rotem disasters and goes with something tried and true, from a manufacturer with a long and rich history of building rock-solid rolling stock for American rapid transit agencies. There's no reason why Bombardier or Kawasaki can't adapt one of their proven MTA B-division designs and give the T the next-generation of 1500's, trains we'll still be using in 2050, we just have to let them.

As the recent equipment purchases from Siemens and MPI have demonstrated, new equipment purchases can be relatively painless, IF you go with proven, reputable vendors. You get what you pay for, and the T can't afford to let politics or budgets get in the way of quality product this time around, not when you're replacing the backbones of two RT lines that both have been running with equipment that needed to be retired a decade ago.

Bramdeisroberts wrote:

jwhite07 wrote:This Changchun outfit probably scored big on this announcement - politically they're in the right place at the right time, right now.

And that's what gives me the willies about the whole announcement. It sounds like "Hyundai-Rotem 2: Electric Boogaloo", except that this time the far-east manufacturer involved has even LESS of a global presence, from a country where the notions of "quality control", "accountability", and "ethical business practices" make Korea look like Germany or Denmark.

Let's hope the T has learned from the Breda and Rotem disasters and goes with something tried and true, from a manufacturer with a long and rich history of building rock-solid rolling stock for American rapid transit agencies. There's no reason why Bombardier or Kawasaki can't adapt one of their proven MTA B-division designs and give the T the next-generation of 1500's, trains we'll still be using in 2050, we just have to let them.

As the recent equipment purchases from Siemens and MPI have demonstrated, new equipment purchases can be relatively painless, IF you go with proven, reputable vendors. You get what you pay for, and the T can't afford to let politics or budgets get in the way of quality product this time around, not when you're replacing the backbones of two RT lines that both have been running with equipment that needed to be retired a decade ago.

I was just coming here to post the same thoughts. This company is completely unproven in North America - the T cannot afford to have the Red and Orange Lines be screwed up by new equipment issues. Hopefully, Kawasaki or Bombardier can set up a site in Massachusetts to do some final work and qualify for the contract

You get what you pay for, and the T can't afford to let politics or budgets get in the way of quality product this time around

With the shunning of federal funding and the insertion of the "Buy Massachusetts" requirement, you can be sure that politics and budget are already very much in play here. The best outcome for the enthusiasts populating this forum would be that the freedom from federal requirements allows the T to choose the "best" bidder regardless of bid price.

I have not been following along with this thread.

Is Siemens in the hunt for this order?

I had a chance to talk to Jonathan Davis yesterday. He claimed that the new Orange, Red, and Green Line contract awards will have a 'technology' component (essentially proof that the manufacturer can reliably deliver) equal or greater to low bid in weighting. He denied this was a response to the Rotems and instead pointed to the Bredas, and said that the new Blue Line cars had a similar weighting (hence their success).

Why is the "T" not getting federal funds for these cars?