Major derailment @ Spuyten Duyvil

Ridgefielder wrote:I'm going to take anything the engineer said in the immediate aftermath with a large grain of salt-- particularly as he was injured severely enough to be hospitalized.

I don't believe the engineer was severely injured. My understanding is he was released from the ER within a few hours.

Just because the engineer was released from the hospital after several hours
It does not mean after the accident he was not dazed and confused initially
his mental status could have improved allowing for discharge to home

scoostraw wrote:Often the conductor will be at the head end with the engineer. No way to know for sure, but my guess would be that he wasn't in this instance.

It's the opposite. In most cases the conductor is at the rear of the train. It is so in the event of the train needing to "back up", the conductor becomes the engineer's eyes. There is at times a trainman (assistant conductor) at the head end. If the assistant was carrying out his or her other duties (revenue sweeps, assisting passengers, etc) then they would be elsewhere. Being the previous stop was Yonkers, I would think that is the case.

The train did NOT stop in Yonkers, and on Hudson line they do not allow Cdr/Tmn to ride head end (except from 125th to GCT)

We have no idea (except for MNR insiders) when he reported for work. The crew book job may or may not originate in Po town. Did he report there, or at GCT way earlier in the day? Relief day? With 11 years seniority on the engine service roster, he may have been working a relief job. We, the uninformed do not know. Could sleep apnea be a factor here? I did not realize I had it my whole career until just after I retired from engine service. The lousy hours and repetitive disruptions of life having to report for work when available and ordered to add up. Even as a manager in engine service I was affected by the ridiculous fluctuating hours and crazy report times. I just hope Mr. Rockefeller comes through this with a stable state of mind. No one should have to bear the mental scar of such an event and be expected to shrug it off, even if he ever returns to the seat. It appears publicly he has already been convicted. The media and NTSB should be ashamed of their abuse of ones privacy and reputation. These days that seems to be smeared in an instant, without question. Disgusting.

DutchRailnut wrote:on Hudson line they do not allow Cdr/Tmn to ride head end (except from 125th to GCT)

Why is that Dutch?

NTSB briefing:

--this was the engineer's normal route, which he'd been working since 11/17. He typically did five nine-hour days a week, with two round trips between Poughkeepsie and GCT. It was the second day of his work week.

--alcohol tests negative, drug tests still pending

--NTSB is interviewing crew and is interviewing engineer at this very moment

--brakes were tested prior to departure, data from each stop showed no anomalies or issues with the brakes

"Zone out", "tired", "microsleep", "white line fever", the difference doesn't matter. All of us at one time or another get tired, zone out, or just plain make a dumb mistake, whatever, once every few years, for the sake of argument . Or we might have a medical condition emergency of some sort. It happens. I am very fortunate , in my job, if I do, I just retype a few lines on my computer, there are no real consequences. My point is, there just is no excuse for not having EFFECTIVE safety systems to back up people. It is better for the passengers, and it is better for employees both for their own safety as well as mental well being. I would wager that if the people who make decisions where to spend the big $$ also had jobs that put lives on the line if they ever "zoned out" or got tired, and they would get blamed for the consequences, with possible criminal implications, these safety back-ups would have been implemented a long time ago. JS

scoostraw wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:on Hudson line they do not allow Cdr/Tmn to ride head end (except from 125th to GCT)

Why is that Dutch?

The company's stance is they feel additional people in the operating cab leads to distraction. Last year they mandated a qualified crew member to be present in the operating cab upon leaving/entering GCT as another set of eyes while observing signals within the complex.

I just wanted to add that one thing that may cause sleepiness or "zoning out" even after 8 hours of "sleep" is undiagnosed or untreated sleep apnea. NOTE: This is NOT intended to be speculative as to a cause or contributing factor to this particular incident, nor to reflect upon any person or entity involved in any way.

Steamboat Willie wrote:The company's stance is they feel additional people in the operating cab leads to distraction.

How long has this rule been in effect, do you know?

Back up and running tomorrow. 1 track. Looking at the track map, there will need to be 2 miles of singletracking (CP10 to CP12).

Wow, these reporters ask some dumb questions like they have no idea what their asking about! Being on TV is more about looking good than knowing what questions to ask or god-forbid they do some research and know the different between a conductor and engineer, alerter and deadman etc. Clark Kent and Lois Lane did better jobs at reporting. It's a shame they wasted the time given at this press conference asking amateur questions. ie: "is there a co-pilot on the train?"

I would ask: were train brakes applied by engineer or as a result of train breaking up?
Did the event recorders in the cab car and locomotive and the cab car in the belly all correspond?
What was the last recorded event prior to emergency brakes being applied? How far in advance did that happen?
Were the cab signal and ATC properly cut in on all units in consist?
Was the train on schedule at time of derailment?
Who was the last crew member to have contact with engineer prior to derailment?
What statement did the engineer make regarding condition of brakes or his own condition?
Who called in the derailment to the RTC? The engineer?

Sorry ....Tuesday start time at 23:59 ( and usually work the full boat... NOT BY CHOICE till 11:59 wed)and start again as early as 00:01 on Thursday., WAS considered a Day OFF under our hour of services laws. The FRA slaped the railroads hand after finding that loop hole and said " guys have to be off 24 hours after last tour of duty to reset clock. Becsuse it did not show a "START" on that calendar day. The railroads try to say you had a break of a day off in the 6/2 and 7/3 rule. It was a technical glitch. I have BEEN doing this for 15 years. Railroads dont care we our tired! All OF THEM!. Try to tell a crew caller you feel unfit for duty because your tired and your pulled out of service and givin an investigation. The FRA cares, the unions care, THE RAILROADS DONT!

2 Things -

I live nearby and frequently use the next station up the line Riverdale. I notice that southbound Poughkeepsie trains seem to hit neutral and coast just after passing the station. Seeing that he did 80 MPH, He had his 'foot on the gas' for a while longer - surprised no other crew noticed. ALSO, why didnt they try the bus to Mt Vernon West like the last disruption, then run express service in. The bus to a long and LOCAL 1 train is an awful alternative.