Fitchburg Line Upgrade Discussion

Sounds like something from the old days...

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

130MM wrote:[quote="F-line to Dudley via Park] ...where the inability of the signal signal to detect the presence of a train caps the max speed at 60...

Not sure what you are saying here. Care to illucidate?

Since that system is present on large portions of every other northside line except the Newburyport extension that's why the speed limits don't exceed 60..

The New Hampshire ML has 70 MPH speeds.

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

It does not appear that's true 100% end-to-end. Quoting from the existing conditions summary for the NH Main from the VTTrans Boston-Montreal feasibility study, 2003 (p. 69: http://www.nh.gov/dot/org/aerorailtrans ... ealHSR.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). . .

Speeds: Northbound track between Boston and Wilmington is 70. Southbound track is 60 MPH. Wilmington to North Chelmsford is 60 both directions.

Signals: ABS signals between MP 3.2 (Somerville Jct.???) and 7.8 (Winchester Ctr. station), MP 15.2 (Wilmington station) and 20.3 (Shop Interlocking???), and between Lowell station/Bleachery Jct. and CP-N. Chelmsford. All other territory in between is CTC (including CP-N. Chelmsford to end of signals in Manchester). And the breakdown in territories makes sense because the Lowell Line got extensive rehab work between Winchester and Wilmington in 1979 requiring months of bustitutions and train service that only ran as far as the Woburn Branch. There's never been a service interruption in the places that are still ABS (incl. for freight getting to Billerica during that '79 construction).

Unless they got inaccurate info for that '03 study, that's the same as current conditions today.

So appears to be the same on-again/off-again patchwork of differing types of signals present on the Western and Eastern routes. N. Beverly-Newburyport is definitely the only place on the northside you can currently top out at real 79 on the speedometer until Fitchburg starts seeing that in another year-plus.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Some correction needed here. ABS 261 is in service on the Lowell Line on both the #1 & #2 tracks (and Trk 4 in Wilmington) between Tower A and CPF-BY. Both main trks do hit 70 mph at some points on the line, but is all North of Wilmington, for the most part it is 60 mph. IDK much on the signal system, but as for the signal system detecting trains, it all has to do with battery charges in the relay boxes at the signals, when the train shunts the circuit, signal goes to stop, so unless there is a problem, the signal system can always detect a train in the block. In DCS territory, that is when an engineer must inform the dispatcher of the blocks that he has cleared

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

130MM wrote:[quote="F-line to Dudley via Park] ...where the inability of the signal signal to detect the presence of a train caps the max speed at 60...

Not sure what you are saying here. Care to illucidate?

Since that system is present on large portions of every other northside line except the Newburyport extension that's why the speed limits don't exceed 60..

The New Hampshire ML has 70 MPH speeds.

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

It does not appear that's true 100% end-to-end. Quoting from the existing conditions summary for the NH Main from the VTTrans Boston-Montreal feasibility study, 2003 (p. 69: http://www.nh.gov/dot/org/aerorailtrans ... ealHSR.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). . .

Speeds: Northbound track between Boston and Wilmington is 70. Southbound track is 60 MPH. Wilmington to North Chelmsford is 60 both directions.

Signals: ABS signals between MP 3.2 (Somerville Jct.???) and 7.8 (Winchester Ctr. station), MP 15.2 (Wilmington station) and 20.3 (Shop Interlocking???), and between Lowell station/Bleachery Jct. and CP-N. Chelmsford. All other territory in between is CTC (including CP-N. Chelmsford to end of signals in Manchester). And the breakdown in territories makes sense because the Lowell Line got extensive rehab work between Winchester and Wilmington in 1979 requiring months of bustitutions and train service that only ran as far as the Woburn Branch. There's never been a service interruption in the places that are still ABS (incl. for freight getting to Billerica during that '79 construction).

Unless they got inaccurate info for that '03 study, that's the same as current conditions today.

So appears to be the same on-again/off-again patchwork of differing types of signals present on the Western and Eastern routes. N. Beverly-Newburyport is definitely the only place on the northside you can currently top out at real 79 on the speedometer until Fitchburg starts seeing that in another year-plus.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Both main trks do hit 70 mph at some points on the line, but is all North of Wilmington, for the most part it is 60 mph. IDK much on the signal system, but as for the signal system detecting trains, it all has to do with battery charges in the relay boxes at the signals, when the train shunts the circuit, signal goes to stop, so unless there is a problem, the signal system can always detect a train in the block. In DCS territory, that is when an engineer must inform the dispatcher of the blocks that he has cleared[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

The NHML currently has the following bits of 70 MPH speeds:

1. Track 1 Somerville Jct. to Crawford
2. Tracks 1 and 2 Wilbur to Wilmington
3. Tracks 1 and 2 MP 17 to Shop

As 1050 said, the signal system in effect on both the Fitchburg and the NHML detects the presence of a train. However, on Track 2 on the Fitchburg there was a small section between Hastings and Waltham where the system gave no indication to the tower operator where the train was until it hit the approach to Waltham. There was another "dark" section on Track 1 in the Lincoln area. These areas may have been removed when the tower was retired, and control moved into the control center.

DAW

The automated message on the Fitchburg trains stated there will be no trains between Brandeis Roberts and Fitchburg the next several weekends. It also stated "there will be no substitute bus service." Is this true?

This is true. It has been widely advertised for months now along the line in the form of posters. The Brandies cut was supposed to start at the beginning of August but was delayed until this week. The schedule is also changing, I have not been able to compare what is posted on the site now and what we will be running. But I know there are some tweaks and additional trains. I hope they pick up on this error soon!

Edit: If you look at the schedules, there is a special PDF schedule. That shows the correct times. The ones on the site do not match and are not correct!
correct times----> http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/Docum ... chburg.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like ten round trips instead of 8. No changes yet to the weekday schedule.

Inbound:
1460 moved up about 45 minutes (arrives 2:34), renumbered to 1408
New train 1412 (arrives 5:43)
1466 renumbered to 1414
1412 discontinued
New train 1416 (arrives 9:13)
1414 renumbered to 1418
New train 1420 (arrives 12:45 am)

Outbound:
New train 1401 (departs 7:20)
1405 discontinued
New train 1403 (departs 9:40)
1407 moved up 7 minutes, renumbered 1405
1459 renumbered to 1407
1409 moved up 30 minutes (departs 3:00)
1463 renumbered 1411
1411 renumbered 1413
1413 renumbered 1415
New train 1417 (departs 10:00)

sery2831 wrote:Edit: If you look at the schedules, there is a special PDF schedule. That shows the correct times. The ones on the site do not match and are not correct!
correct times----> http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/Docum ... chburg.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for catching that!

The incorrect HTML schedule on pages like http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/ ... I&timing=S" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is the normal non-construction schedule with the stops past Brandeis deleted. So they didn't just forget to update it -- someone tried to update it but got it wrong.

Also, the service alert at http://www.mbta.com/rider_tools/transit ... Acton+Line" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; implies it's just this weekend, when it's actually until November.

The EGE wrote:Looks like ten round trips instead of 8. No changes yet to the weekday schedule.

Inbound:
1460 moved up about 45 minutes (arrives 2:34), renumbered to 1408
New train 1412 (arrives 5:43)
1466 renumbered to 1414
1412 discontinued
New train 1416 (arrives 9:13)
1414 renumbered to 1418
New train 1420 (arrives 12:45 am)

Outbound:
New train 1401 (departs 7:20)
1405 discontinued
New train 1403 (departs 9:40)
1407 moved up 7 minutes, renumbered 1405
1459 renumbered to 1407
1409 moved up 30 minutes (departs 3:00)
1463 renumbered 1411
1411 renumbered 1413
1413 renumbered 1415
New train 1417 (departs 10:00)

The outage is only during the weekends, nothing during the week will be changed.

boblothrope wrote:

sery2831 wrote:
Also, the service alert at http://www.mbta.com/rider_tools/transit ... Acton+Line" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; implies it's just this weekend, when it's actually until November.

They have been doing alerts like this lately, renewing it every week.

I found this notice on the Town of Weston's website:

Tower Road Detour - September 6th

Work on the Tower Road railroad crossing will begin this coming weekend.

The crossing will be closed Friday, September 6th at 11:00 p.m. through
Monday, September 9th at 8:00 a.m. The work, which entails removing the
old tracks and replacing it with a new crossing, is expected to be
continuous during this closure.

A detour will be in effect during this time. Traffic will be directed up
Sudbury Road to Glezen Lane (Wayland) and out to route 126 (north) to get
to route 117.

MBCR has been working on nearly all the grade crossings between Hastings and South Acton over the past few weeks. There are piles of sand and sections of conduit (4 inch dia by 8 ft long?). Some have been done and others have been marked with red/orange paint. They seem to be cutting the pavement and digging the conduit in. I haven't seen the cables they are installing, but I assume that this is probably part of the work on the signalling system.

agarturbo wrote:MBCR has been working on nearly all the grade crossings between Hastings and South Acton over the past few weeks. There are piles of sand and sections of conduit (4 inch dia by 8 ft long?). Some have been done and others have been marked with red/orange paint. They seem to be cutting the pavement and digging the conduit in. I haven't seen the cables they are installing, but I assume that this is probably part of the work on the signalling system.

Yep. All of the signal cable that currently runs on telephone poles is being replaced by trenched conduits. So the crossings that still have overhead need new trenches dug. Whichever ones had preexisting trenches they'll just thread the new cable through what was already there.

Is this the first time MBCR has not offered bustitution service for suspended commuter trains? Certainly some folks can take a Worcester line train into Boston but what about people who don't have the means to do so?

"Alex Pratt @alexdpratt

@BostonUrbEx @universalhub Anyone know when S. Acton trains will extend to Littleton? Double tracking available now."

Anyone know anything about this? I saw that trains are using both tracks at Littleton, so I'm not sure what the current hold up is.

Probably not until the next schedule change.