Secane Station

Amtrak7 noted this change in the recent GVF thread:

Also note that the Secane expresses have now become Primos expresses.

Septa quietly purchased the three homes closest to Secane station in 2010, and they've just been demolished. This space allows for considerably more parking that the current lot. Also, the platforms can be extended so stopped trains no longer violate the crossing, which has been a huge tie-up for years.

I don't recall hearing about the project (to whatever degree it's going). Has this been planned for a while? Once the work is done, I could see the restoration of the Secane express runs.

They actually purchased the four homes next to the station.

Quinn wrote:Amtrak7 noted this change in the recent GVF thread:

Also note that the Secane expresses have now become Primos expresses.

Also, the platforms can be extended so stopped trains no longer violate the crossing, which has been a huge tie-up for years.

Even though the trains would no longer be physically stopped across the crossing, wouldn't the gates still stay in the down position with the train stopped so close to the crossing???

SubwayTim wrote:

Quinn wrote:Amtrak7 noted this change in the recent GVF thread:

Also note that the Secane expresses have now become Primos expresses.

Also, the platforms can be extended so stopped trains no longer violate the crossing, which has been a huge tie-up for years.

Even though the trains would no longer be physically stopped across the crossing, wouldn't the gates still stay in the down position with the train stopped so close to the crossing???

At Morton, the gates generally go up when an outbound train is in the station. I think it's just a matter of where they cut the circuit to the crossing. If it's only a few feet after the crossing, the gates will go up provided the train is not within those few feet of the crossing.

R3toNEC wrote:They actually purchased the four homes next to the station.

Quite right! I miscounted.

R3toNEC wrote:

SubwayTim wrote:

Quinn wrote:Amtrak7 noted this change in the recent GVF thread:

Also note that the Secane expresses have now become Primos expresses.

Also, the platforms can be extended so stopped trains no longer violate the crossing, which has been a huge tie-up for years.

Even though the trains would no longer be physically stopped across the crossing, wouldn't the gates still stay in the down position with the train stopped so close to the crossing???

At Morton, the gates generally go up when an outbound train is in the station. I think it's just a matter of where they cut the circuit to the crossing. If it's only a few feet after the crossing, the gates will go up provided the train is not within those few feet of the crossing.

At Morton the gates stay down when an inbound train is in the station, and I'm afraid Subway Tim is right; an outbound train at Secane would hold the gates down whether it was on the crossing or not. There are crossings arranged such that if an approaching train is traveling at less than a predetermined speed when passing a predetermined point before reaching the crossing, the gates will not go down, and the train is then required to stop at the station and activate the gate before proceeding. I'm not up on the electrical complications, but I've been told that it won't work on an electrified line. (As it is, the situation at Morton is an accident waiting to happen. I was once about 4th or 5th in line at the crossing, facing south, when the gates were down for an inbound train which was standing at the station. The backup lights on the car ahead of me went on, and I knew exactly what was going to happen next: the car backed up, pulled to the left past the stopped cars, and around the gate. There is a building on the left which completely shuts off the view in that direction; if an outbound train had come along at that moment it would have been completely concealed by the building, and the driver of the car wouldn't have known what hit him. I think the same thing could happen at Secane -- if a motorist saw an outbound train at the platform, and the crossing unoccupied, I'm not sure whether he could see an approaching inbound train, or would even think to look for one.)

ExCon90 wrote:There are crossings arranged such that if an approaching train is traveling at less than a predetermined speed when passing a predetermined point before reaching the crossing, the gates will not go down, and the train is then required to stop at the station and activate the gate before proceeding. I'm not up on the electrical complications, but I've been told that it won't work on an electrified line.

Making the warning circuit speed-sensitive shouldn't be rendered impossible on an electrified line. It's a Doppler thing, IIRC: you put pulses in at one rate, and the faster the train is approaching, the higher the return frequency is. Don't see how that's precluded by electrification considering they run coded track circuits on electrified lines.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

ExCon90 wrote:There are crossings arranged such that if an approaching train is traveling at less than a predetermined speed when passing a predetermined point before reaching the crossing, the gates will not go down, and the train is then required to stop at the station and activate the gate before proceeding. I'm not up on the electrical complications, but I've been told that it won't work on an electrified line.

Making the warning circuit speed-sensitive shouldn't be rendered impossible on an electrified line. It's a Doppler thing, IIRC: you put pulses in at one rate, and the faster the train is approaching, the higher the return frequency is. Don't see how that's precluded by electrification considering they run coded track circuits on electrified lines.

I've been told the same thing, IIRC with the return to ground in the rails, sensing the incoming rate of speed gives abnormal and erratic results.

PS. I only deal with non-electrified lines ...

Broad St in Lansdale will go down a a train approaches, but will go back up if the train stops, there is another circuit the train has to hit at slow speed to reactivate the gates, other wise the crew has to manually protect the street, as for Morton being an accident waiting to happen that is entirely on the motorist, the railroad has the warning devices, If they activate then stay put, I have no sympathy for anyone who chooses to risk removing themselves from the gene pool, a deadhead or express will pass Morton at 60mph, the old saying expect a train on any track at any time in any direction.

I remember hearing that Secane was the next stop to be full high level on the Elwyn Line but the funding issue put it on hold. SEPTA also purchased the empty lot on the 1 track side next to the Apartments which is accessible from Bishop ave.

I don't think SEPTA uses the motion sensing crossing protection that raises the gates when it senses the train is stopped in a station, then when the train starts out of the station it lowers them again.

I'm surprised with today's technology you couldn't do this on an electrified line.

There is a specification for the length of time the gates must be down before a train enters the crossing.
I seem to remember something like 15-30 seconds. This determines the length of the approach circuits based on maximum allowed speed.
This will complicate the whole concept of allowing the gates to come up while a train is in the station, then lowering again when the train is ready to leave.
This time requirement is what ultimately led to the demise of the gates on the Rt 101 & 102 lines, although the "railroad" standard was applied there which was, in my opinion overkill, given the capabilities of Lightrail cars and the realities of that operation.

AS for people who are so impatient that they can't wait for the train do do it's business and leave and insist on breaking the law by illegally passing stopped cars and driving around the gates, it is my opinion that they deserve to die.

My sympathy for the self-destructors is limited -- I was thinking more about the delay to hundreds of commuters while they wait for the authorities to release the track.