The SIRR and RVRR V

Just a note that NJ-ARP not only approves of "our tax dollars" rehabilitating this rail route (or these rail lines), but we helped identify the money -- and the route, among others -- in helping craft the bond issue legislation for same in 1989.

We'll note plenty of other people thought -- and still seem to think -- the long-term payoff for this project is worthwhile. We respect those who are more skeptical; it's only natural and proper to seek (or at least have identified) the benefits.

But measured by nearly two decades, NJ-ARP thinks the expenditure rate for this effort is hardly rash or radical. The news coming to us on this thread is welcome, indeed.

May I also point out, Trainlawyer, that the line would need to be rehabilitated before the M&E can effectively sell its services along the line.

As the saying goes, "Promises, promises." If I own a business along the RVRR, or am looking at moving near rail freight service, the first thing I would need to know is that there is actually going to be rail freight service there. Until there is a product (rail freight service) for the M&E to sell between Summit and Cranford, there's not a whole lot of selling they can do. I'm not going to sign up on the possibility that such service might one day be there.

Its not as if there aren't businesses along the RVRR that couldn't eventually be sold on rail service. There are six or seven businesses along the ROW in Roselle Park, at least a dozen sites in Kenilworth, at least a dozen more in Union (including on the remains of the Newark Heights branch), one or two in Springfield, and perhaps even one or two in Summit. In Union, there is a large property on Springfield Rd. North awaiting redevelopment (the return of the RR could spur that redevelopment, and vice-versa).

Then there's the possibility of a team track or two along the route. I can think of several likely locations that could serve the various businesses too not immediately facing the ROW, including the light-industrial zones off Rt. 22 in Springfield, Union, and Kenilworth, and in the Newark Heights section of Maplewood that used to be served by the RVRR before it was severed by the construction of I-78.

Trainlawyer wrote: Daily light engine moves from Morristown to Bayway? Are they making so much money on that site that they can afford the fuel and at least half a workday on a scenic ride through the golf course? Do you happen to have any numbers you could share comparing the costs? Are the crew and fuel costs when added to the cost of the rehabilitation really less than Amtrak is charging for the periodic move? And the Public (meaning me) should pay for this why?

The Staten Island side makes far more sense than the Rahway Valley side. It allows a Shared Assets Manville local to drop Bayway cars at what ever they now call Staten Island Junction on the Valley (which can save at least a day of transit time) and, if an agreement can be reached between the State, the Port Authority, Shared Assets, and the M&E, overhead traffic to Howland Hook et cetera can move directly off of the Lehigh Valley and Reading Lines.

In the absence of some evidence of customers and public purpose the Rahway Valley side still strikes as little more than a corporate welfare payment to a company that does not need it.

GME

My guess is that the M&E will be doing more than just the occasional light engine move. Rehabbing the line will allow them to bring hoppers directly from Bayway to customers in Morris County. Also, I'd be willing to guess that Union County has some interest in this line being rehabilitated, perhaps in the form of a transfer station or some other venture on or near county property. There is probably a customer or two on the Rahway Valley side lined up already. If you do a bit of searching along the Rahway Valley ROW and a bit of deductive reasoning when observing which sections are being rebuilt first and which ones aren't the story will emerge.

Camelback wrote: There is probably a customer or two on the Rahway Valley side lined up already. If you do a bit of searching along the Rahway Valley ROW and a bit of deductive reasoning when observing which sections are being rebuilt first and which ones aren't the story will emerge.

Exactly.

Where is the work being done? From Roselle Park to Union, where there are dozens of businesses along the ROW.

Where is the work NOT being done? In Springfield and Summit, where there are a total of at most 3 potential clients along the ROW.

It's quite possible that until the Springfield-Summit segment is rehabbed, which will take the most time (due to bridge replacement, etc.), the RV will be used to move freight south from the aforementioned businesses in Union, Kenilworth, and Roselle Park onto the SIRR and for interchange with the LV and others around Aldene...and the M&E will not worry about anything moving north of Union for the near future.

So far this is what we know:

1) Union County contracted with the M&E to rehab these lines.

2) Gordon Fuller has said consistantly that there is one customer along the former Rahway Valley ROW which he won't name.

3) Work is being done on both sides of Rt. 22 but not past the Rahway River bridge in Springfield. (This is significant because it recquires putting a crossing on Rt. 22 -- an expensive proposition.) Why not leave this until last?

4) Union County has two county parks located along the ROW, including the Galloping Hill Golf Course which also houses one of the main facilities for the Park Maintainance division.

5) The M&E tried to pull a fast one last year by building a clandestine transfer station in Morris County.

6) Rehabbing these lines as this has been a politically divisive action.

From this info we might be able to make a couple of hypothesis about who the customers might be along this line.

Hello all,

Well, this thread is starting to take on an interesting tone.

Since we are speculating here about potential M&E customers, I might point out to you all that each and everyone of those armchair railroaders on this site could probably in one day of following the lines determine what customers there are and clearly demonstrate to the remainder of us what potential, positive economic activity could be generated by the rehabilitated lines.

As for my own speculation, here it is, for all you to shoot at.

First, lets take a look at the agreements between the M&E and the county. For those of you who may never have seen it, you can find a copy of it on the "Stop the Train" website. ( Proof positive you can indeed find something useful in an anti-rail nimby website! )

The M&E was contracted to rehab the lines and operate them for a period of twenty years. In the agreement, the M&E retained the ability to grant overhead trackage rights to other railroads. I suspect that the M&E had anticipated that it would have granted overhead rights to CSX and NS for traffic moving to howland hook on Staten Island. This language appears to have been before the final approval was reached by the Port Authority to build the new ramps from the AK drawbridge to the chemical coast. I beleive the M&E intended to derive a part of their revenue from their ability to grant trackage rights agreements.

The next part of the agreement spoke of the Bayway agreement. Obviously, Tosco, now Phillips Petroleum, was anticipated being a user of the line, and appears to be bound by its ageement to use the line. The question is, at which end of the line will the interchange wth the class 1's take place. I would guess that the NS and CSX would want to keep that traffic at the Linden end of the line.

Customer #1 is identified!

Now, lets look the rest of the SIRT. If anyone can please find me a switch leading to an industry other than Tosco, please speak now. The other customer in Linden at the end of the NYS&W era was Laminated Paper. However, in the wondeful rehab job done by the M&E, the switch leading to that plant was removed, I have yet to see it be restored. In fact, I have yet to see any switch restored to any industry other than Tosco. The one siding that was rebuilt that headed towards Federal Plastics in Cranford, the M&E stopped at the property line without finishing the replacement of the connection to the siding. I have heard that the M&E marketing people were told by management to not yet pursue that business, even though Federal was the very last customer served by the NYS&W in 1992. They are now served by Conrail and as such, the M&E has been told by Conrail "that's our account now, don't touch it, even though you can get to it, or else....!!!"

Customers #2 and, maybe, #3 are identified.

If anybody has any other customers along the SIRT they know about, feel free to chime in.! Remember, just because a company may be located next to the tracks, their location alone may not make them a customer. Garden State Brickface in Roselle does not do enough business on their own to generate railcar loads of inbound construction material. While they have nearly 60,000 ft of space, its not all for just bricks!

I'll be taking a trip out to see the RV rehabilitation this weekend. I'll try to take some notes about potential industries along that line. I'll finish speculating more over the weekend. Until next time......

See ya all later.....

If we're speculating about potential customers on the RV, the first that comes to mind is Duerr Tool & Die http://www.duerrinc.com/ on Springfield Road N. in Union. They do injection molding, so I presume they will receive plastic pellets--why not via rail. They are located on the former Farcher's Grove property--a passenger stop for the RV in the late 19th and early 20th century.

A second possibility, which I have mentioned previously, is a property further south on Springfield Rd., between Iorio Ct. and the Pathmark shopping center on Rt. 22. This large lot, where a concrete foundation was built years ago, was I believe supposed to be the future home of either the Costco that was built further east, the Wall-to-Walmart across Rt. 22, or the Home Depot next the Wall-to-Walmart. All of those projects were moved due to concerns about things like traffic. Anyway, that property abuts the RV, and would be a perfect site for a new warehouse, distirbution center, factory, etc., with easy rail access.

Then there are several manufacturers along the wye in Union, including: International Paint, located next to the Morris Ave. bridge (across the tracks from Jaeger Lumber); Breeze-Eastern, which is right next to the Liberty Ave. crossing; and a flavorings company on Rahway Ave. whose name I can't recall.

In Kenilworth, there are a couple of possibilities in the small industrial zone on the east side of Michigan Ave. around the former RVRR headquarters site. Many more line the ROW between the Kenilworth A&P property and the Faitoute/Michigan Ave. crossing.

Another thing to consider is county owned property along the ROW. The county might be considering a transfer station and/or recycling center shipped out by rail. This could produce revenue for the county. The county rarely will commit to a politically unpopular project for the sole purpose of future economic development which may or may not come. I would guess Union County has some stake in these lines being reactivated. Who currently owns the lot on Springfield Rd. between Iorio and Pathmark? This might be very telling.

From a railfan perspective, we would support reactivation of these lines even if the sole purpose of it was for Gordon Fuller to go joy riding in an RS 11. But the politicians would not support such an unpopular decision if there wasn't something in it for them and the county. After all, this is New Jersey we're talking about.

Since we are all speculating on potential customers, let us not lose focus on why all those GATX hoppers have been sitting on the new storage tracks at the corner of Rts 1 and 9 and the beginning of INT 278 built a couple of years back. Within the Phillips Petroleum Refinery's limits they are producing plastic pellets which are being shipped out in these hoppers.

Refinery Capacity in this country is at an all time high....and there is little room for these hoppers in the already crowded Bayway yard along the Chemical Coast, and with the Howland Hook connection construction moving along, one can imagine that there will be even less room in that area once the connection is built.

The SIRT will most likely be a "back door" for this plastic business. I also understand that there is a company interested in developing the track (as a team track) that comes off the SIRT just West of the RT's 1+9 bridge (north side).

I didn't even realize there was a switch there until I saw that they had stuffed hoppers down there. I think this is the track that used to interchange with the corridor that crossed Linden Ave by Cheeques. You can barely see some rail still in the pavement across from Cheeques.

Here is an aerial photo of those GATX hoppers at the Bayway Refinery, courtesy of Google Maps:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Linden,NJ ... &t=k&hl=en

When I drove down Iorio this morning, the parking at the dead end was marked off w/ yellow caution tape & rail is distributed from liberty past Iorio and on towards Rt 22...The ROW is now clear all the way onto Liberty street...I'm sure the ties will follow. There is ties & tail from Liberty to the Rahway river bridge.

There are a couple issues to keep in mind. A railcar will hold much more than a truck (for example, a boxcar has the capacity of about 2.5 53ft trailers). Not every business needs that much raw material at one time. This is a big reason for bulk transfer facilities. This way a company is not forced to order an entire carload of plastic pelets, even if it will take them a week or more to use it all.

Railroads are required by AAR regulations to charge demurage. This is a charge incured for keeping a railcar after a set amount of time to load or unload it. Not including Sunday, a customer has 24 hours to unload a car and 48 hours to load a car. After that time has expired, the customers will incur charges each day until they release the car. The charges also increase after 3 days, and again after several more days pass. The M&E, or any other railroad, may not waive these charges, unless the customer owns the car. This is to keep customers from using cars for storage and to keep the cars in circulation.

Demurage charges have actually driven some customers away from rail, just ask MarkyK.

The track to Federal Plastics is actually intended to be a bulk transfer track, or so I have been told.

I doubt the County would get much support for converting parkland to a garbage transfer station.

Hope this question is relative to this thread....

Was northbound on the GSP yesterday and noticed a small railyard ( 3-4 tracks ) at the base of the RVL ramp ( Aldene Plan ) going up to the Lehigh Line. Exact location was on the north side of the ROW looking down from the elevated GSP.

The brief look I got at 65mph seemed to suggest this yard had recently been cleared of brush exposing old trackage....

What was this and is the yard in the RVL/SIRT rehab plans ?

I noticed this too. Looks like it will be a small Rahway Valley yard. Anyone know for certain?

I saw several covered hoppers on the SI just east of the NEC bridge. I assume the tracks are being used for storage of Bayway cars. Is this new or have I been oblivious to surroundings lately?