Subway Extension to Secaucus (Flushing #7 or L Canarsie)

I think the 7 extension to New Jersey is pretty much dead. MTA Chairman Lhota said that plus it seemed to be a flawed idea to begin with.

But apparently that is true about the PA having jurisdiction (at least over bridges) in a 25 mile radius. See link-

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/ ... rong-place

But how about ARC and Gateway? Port Authority doesn't have (or want probably) jurisdiction over them. Can the PA pick and choose what it wants to control?

By the way, I read Jameson Doig's book Empire on the Hudson -- he's the Jim Doig referred to in the link -- about the PA and also read the so-called Red Book by the bi-state harbor commission that created the Port Authority in the 1920s. I could never find a clear description of the PA's jurisdiction.

Tommy Meehan wrote:...I could never find a clear description of the PA's jurisdiction.

Until now that is. From the official Port Authority site (scroll down to 'Origins'):

Its area of jurisdiction is called the Port District, a region within a radius of approximately 25 miles of the Statue of Liberty.

http://www.panynj.gov/about/facilities-services.html

Good point on 7 and PA, but I don't think I ever even heard of PA commenting when the idea was first floated. Studied indifference?

Jeff I kind of think the idea never really got far enough along for the PA to look at it. There might have been some communication between New York City and the Port Authority that wasn't made public too.

I still don't get the disconnect with ARC and Gateway. How about the East River crossings?

The Port District is everything within roughly a 25 mile radius of the Statue of Liberty, though there are a handful of irregularities in the border. The Tappan Zee Bridge is about a mile outside of the Port District, which was done on purpose, so the Thruway Authority would not have to cooperate with the PA.

So is this officially dead in the water?

nyrmetros wrote:So is this officially dead in the water?

The next time Amtrak or NJT comes up with some hair-brained ARC/Gateway idea some inept politician will inevitably propose the whole (7) to Secaucus thing again.

But practically, yeah, it's dead.

Looking at some maps, it would be nice if the 7 crossed the Hudson to Weehawken, Union City, and then Secaucus. But that would be a big undertaking I guess.

I'm listening to WCBS 880AM. This is being raised from the dead, again.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/0 ... rt_m-rpt-1

Plan to extend No. 7 subway from NYC to New Jersey could be back on track

Traveling by subway from Secaucus to the Mets' Citi Field may resurface as a possibility.

A plan to extend the No. 7 New York City subway to New Jersey, presumed dead a year ago when the chairman of the New York MTA said it wouldn’t happen “in anybody’s lifetime,” could be revived.

A report commissioned by New York City, expected to be posted this morning on the city's Economic Development Corp. website, extols the benefits of the plan.

"The extension of the No. 7 Subway would result in the first trans-Hudson tunnel connection that would provide direct rail access from New Jersey, not only to the West Side of Manhattan, but also to the East Side and multiple locations in Queens," noted the report by the Parsons Brinckerhoff engineering firm. "It would provide needed capacity across the Hudson River and advance the broader goal of enhancing regional connectivity."

The report, obtained by The Star-Ledger, noted the next step would be an advanced study on the feasibility of extending the No. 7 subway line — which runs from Queens to Times Square — into Secaucus Junction. Coordinated with the Federal Transit Administration, the study would include a cost benefit analysis, identification of financing opportunities and analysis of ridership and revenue.

After Gov. Chris Christie in October 2010 canceled the $9.8 billion ARC tunnel from Secaucus to West 34th Street in Manhattan, New York’s plan to extend the No. 7 train to New Jersey was one of two Hudson River train tunnel alternatives that sprung up in the next few months, along with Amtrak’s proposed Gateway Tunnel from Secaucus to the south side of an expanded New York Penn Station.

But the options were seemingly cut to one last April when then-MTA Chairman Joe Lhota, now a city mayor hopeful, told a forum of New York business leaders the No. 7 extension would be too expensive.

“It’s not going to happen,” he said. “Not in our lifetime. Not in anybody’s lifetime.”

“Of course New Jersey would like to have it,” Lhota added. “They think they’re going to get across the river for $2.50.”

He instead threw his support behind the $13.5 billion Gateway Tunnel, which initially was scheduled to be built by 2020 but so far has received just $30 million.

The Gateway project would allow 13 more NJ Transit trains during peak hours — for a total of 33 — and eight more Amtrak trains.

The Parsons Brinckerhoff report contended that the No. 7 subway project would be compatible with the proposed Gateway plan.

Those hopping on a 7 train in Jersey would be able to reach such destinations as the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center, Times Square, Grand Central Terminal and Citi Field, home of the New York Mets.

It would allow for about 128,000 riders a day on 30 trains per hour, according to the report, and the trip from Secaucus Junction to Grand Central would take about 16 minutes.

Christie canceled the Access to the Region’s Core tunnel because he said he didn’t want New Jerseyans to be on the hook for billions of dollars in cost overruns and was concerned the tunnel didn’t provide easily accessible train connections in Manhattan. He has been receptive to both the Gateway project and No. 7 subway train project.

This will still not happen in my lifetime, but I'm getting old. Maybe in SOMEONE'S lifetime.

I kind of understand New York City's interest in this -- last night a radio traffic report stated the average wait to get into either of the two Hudson River vehicle tunnels was forty-five minutes, just to get into the bloody things! -- and that's bad for the city. However, I think this will be extremely difficult to find funding for so I agree, it will be a long long time before it happens.

Every time the PA shuts a tube down for maintance and the remaining tube is used for 2-way traffic,the delay gets real loong!!
Might take 50 years or so for #7 to NJ,Gov. Christie killed off ARC,don't believe he will support the Gateway project unless the
"congress critters" throw more $$$ to the Jersey Shore areas.

Fifty years actually sounds too quick to me!

This might be this century's version of the Second Avenue Subway, which is taking almost one hundred years to go from the original proposal to completion.

Right now we're seeing the beginnings of what transit planners talk about as the next phase of making transit more useful in the New York Metropolitan Area. Increasing connectivity between the systems. LIRR to Grand Central. Possibly Metro-North to Penn Station.

Once these initial projects are completed, what would come next? I would guess -- and I'm talking decades from now -- perhaps forming a regional transportation agency (what they used to call a 'super agency') that would run everything in the region. From MTA (LIRR, MNR, subways) to NJ Transit and possibly PATH.

I can believe a mass transit line from northern New Jersey to Manhattan may be built someday but I'm skeptical that MTA-New York City Transit will be the 'owner.' That sounds as though it would be tough to do politically. Governor Christie may support the idea now but in the years ahead I believe New Jersey politicians may not be so ready to accept MTA/NYCT expanding into their state.

I don't know if they can prevent it but it actually doesn't seem like such a great idea to me anyway. Even if NYCT operated the line I think it would be better to have an arrangement similar to that which exists today with MTA and the State of Connecticut, between Metro-North and ConnDOT, with separate branding too.

Tommy Meehan wrote:Fifty years actually sounds too quick to me!

This might be this century's version of the Second Avenue Subway, which is taking almost one hundred years to go from the original proposal to completion.

Right now we're seeing the beginnings of what transit planners talk about as the next phase of making transit more useful in the New York Metropolitan Area. Increasing connectivity between the systems. LIRR to Grand Central. Possibly Metro-North to Penn Station.

Once these initial projects are completed, what would come next? I would guess -- and I'm talking decades from now -- perhaps forming a regional transportation agency (what they used to call a 'super agency') that would run everything in the region. From MTA (LIRR, MNR, subways) to NJ Transit and possibly PATH.

I can believe a mass transit line from northern New Jersey to Manhattan may be built someday but I'm skeptical that MTA-New York City Transit will be the 'owner.' That sounds as though it would be tough to do politically. Governor Christie may support the idea now but in the years ahead I believe New Jersey politicians may not be so ready to accept MTA/NYCT expanding into their state.

I don't know if they can prevent it but it actually doesn't seem like such a great idea to me anyway. Even if NYCT operated the line I think it would be better to have an arrangement similar to that which exists today with MTA and the State of Connecticut, between Metro-North and ConnDOT, with separate branding too.

Actually, copletion of the Second Avenue Subway within 100 years is not going to happen. it was first discussed in 1918. We're looking only at the completion of Phase I at then end of 2016. To my knowledge, they have not yet begun to line up the financing for Phase II. And that does not even take into account planning issues such as not including in Phase I the 106th Street station that's part of the plan, even though exceedingly little more than that separates the end of Phase I from a section of tunnel that's been maintained in usable condition at great expense for the last 40 years that's already there.

railfan365 wrote:Actually, completion of the Second Avenue Subway within 100 years is not going to happen. it was first discussed in 1918. We're looking only at the completion of Phase I at then end of 2016...

Duly noted. I definitely should've added "of Phase 1!"