Destination displays on M7a trains

Over the past month or so, I've noticed quite a few M7a's with incorrect destination displays. My line is the Hudson line, but I've gotten on trains that displayed Southeast. And the displays inside tend to be confused, too, showing the previous stop or one ahead. This morning, my express showed the local stops it was skipping until someone did something, at which point it showed "out of service."

Whenever I ask the conductor, they explain that they know about it and have done something to deal with it (even if it's only to turn it off.)

Anybody know any more about this?

Haven't noticed anything unusual about it lately. Sometimes the ASI screws up and then fixes itself, sometimes it doesn't. Could be sun spots affecting GPS satellite, it could be operator error, or who knows? It's one of those things, you know!

I've noticed this a few times over the last couple of weeks, nothing that doesn't clear it self up. Like RearOfSignal stated, the stations en route are GPS based. Sometimes the GPS in your car shows you driving through a river. Sometimes the GPS on the train is less than 100%. The only different is you don't have some annoying woman on the ASI saying "recalculating".

I don't think the problems I've noticed are GPS problems, though.

The destination displayed on the outside can't come from a GPS, since the whole point is that it's displaying a station that the train isn't at. The Croton-bound train that displayed "Southeast" was at GCT, not Southeast.

Same for the "next station" display, since what the next station is depends upon the train's list of scheduled stops. An express and a local at exactly the same spot and going in the same direction are usually going to need to show different stations.

I'm guessing that the system has to have the station list programmed in somehow, and this process or component is where the screw-ups happen, but I don't actually know, since I'm not involved in running the trains. I was hoping there were people here who have actually operated these trains and might know more about how it works (and be willing to say something in public about them.)

The upshot is that I end up having to ask the conductor or the other passengers if I'm on the right train, which sort of defeats the purpose of the displays.

(I have seen a few errors that could be GPS-related. Mainly, when the train says "the next stop is X" for 60 seconds after we've left station X.)

amm in ny wrote: I was hoping there were people here who have actually operated these trains and might know more about how it works (and be willing to say something in public about them.)

The only two responses you've gotten are from people who do work these trains, myself and truck6018.

We program the stations in the ASI before departure. Sometimes the system screws up, sometimes it's announces the wrong stop at the wrong time, freezes, skips stops, sometimes Yankees E 153 has no audio or is announced has Talmedge Hill, sometimes its chimes continually every single second. Sometimes the system can't be fixed immediately or until the engineer keys out at the final programmed stop. Other times we have to shut it down completely which ends up affecting other critical components of the TOD. Sometimes it doesn't work while under ground but fixes itself once we're out of the Park ave tunnel. Sometimes you can't program the ASI because its frozen on the programming from the previous train, even though it came down from Southeast and we're going to Harmon. Sometimes it's operator error which is the cause of the screw up, sometimes it's the system itself. Sometimes if you make an announcement over the PA when the ASI is already making its auto announcement the whole thing freezes up.

A little advice, don't use the exterior destination display to determine where the train stops. At 125th street there's a 4:05 and 4:06 both going to North White Plains, sometimes at the platform at the same time. One is an express, the other a local, you would never know by looking at the destination display. Listening to the announcements or asking the conductor would be much better.

Everyone: Here's a thought: What would cause the M7 display/announcement to incorrectly announce a train/station
on the other railroad-a MNCR M7 train mentioning "This is the train to Babylon-the next stop is Massapequa" or a LIRR
train mentioning "This is the train to Croton-Harmon - The next stop is Tarrytown" are examples...I remember this
happening primarily during the early days of the M7s and nothing recent as far as I recall...

I have noticed on the LIRR that their M7 destination systems are usually pretty accurate compared to the C3 Bilevel
cars in which stations are sometimes mis-announced and due to their unreliability some crews do not use them...

How is MNCR doing with their M7a and M8 destination systems in comparison?

MACTRAXX

To reiterate what RearOfSignal stated, the ASI is not fool proof. If fact there are time's it's the average passengers worst enemy and that's when it works properly. To add to the frustration the conductor can make announcements until they're blue in the face of the train's station stops there are too many people that are disconnected from their sense of hearing though electronic means.

I'll admit there are time's it's almost better when it doesn't work at all. I was on a train a few weeks ago that the neither the conductor, or myself could get it working. After trying to program it from 5 different cabs between myself and the conductor we gave up and kept making manual announcements. From what I could tell everyone got to where they wanted to go. I turned on this set of equipment for my next northbound train and the ASI worked fine. Again, as previously stated, once the engineer keyed out it could have reset something. We'll never know for sure. Unfortunately during the train's operation the engineer can't just key out and back in as you would turn the key in your car. It would void tests done when the conductor and engineer take possession of the equipment.

To my knowledge, this is how the MNR ASI system works on the M7A's:

There are only four possible trips in the ASI system: GCT-Harmon, GCT-Southeast, Harmon-GCT, and Southeast-GCT. The engineer selects one of those four trips and then manually skips all the stops their not making (so if an engineer forgets to skip a stop or fat fingers the wrong one, the system can miss announce a stop).

Then the train starts moving and when the GPS senses the train is x feet away from the platform the system announces "This Station is Melrose". Then when the GPS determine the train has arrived at the station (and maybe even when the doors are opened) it announces "This station is Milrose. This is the train to North White Plains. The next station is Treemont".

On the engineers screen the engineer can see three things from the ASI system: the destination, the next station, and what station they're at (of they're at a station). Then when the train begins to approach the next station the whole process starts over again.

Some possible errors can arrise from all of the things Mr. RearOfSignal mentioned.

MACTRAXX, I don't think that phenomenon you described where a train announces the wrong railroads stops ever arises. Their ASI systems seem to be quite different. For one, on the LIRR I think you imput the train number, and then the system determines for itself what stops are nescescary to be made, then it announces those stations accordingly. Furthermore, coming out of Penn Station sometimes the ASI system will act all funny and announce "This Station is Aurburndale," since Aurburndale is the first eletric station alphabetically on the LIRR. The fact that it does not announce "This Station is Arsdley-on-Hudson," which precedes Aurburndale alphabetically leads me to believe that "Arsdley-on-Hudson" is not in the LIRR M7 system.

And the C3's destinations signs are a mess. From what I've picked up, the C3 destination signs don't work on GPS like the M7/M7A/M8 systems do, rather the stations are either advanced manually by the conductor or by some sort of barcode encoded in the tracks (barcodes which may have been removed when tracks were replaced during track work). It's pretty rare that I see a C3 destination sign working nowadays, and the ones I usually see get usually get stuck around East Hampton coming west (confusing people who get on west of there and see "East Hampton" as the next station stop!). Plus I think the station stops have to be keyed in on a keypad, most of which are missing buttons due to a decade of use.

I've heard of occasions where the LIRR stops were announced on MNR trains and vice versa. I have not eyewitnessed this myself, but I think it was a problem when the M7s and M7As first came out. The ASI system has been updated a couple of times since then. It's possible there still might be a pair somewhere with the old revision on the ASI software.

And the conductor sets up the ASI, not the engineer.

They could always go back to rollsigns... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF0cg2lDN6M