The Flying Yankee

mxdata wrote:The point being, the only realistic source of this magnitude of money is going to be a multi-millionaire donor, a large corporate sponsor, or a major corporation making a gift of machinery for use on the train. The fundraising needs to be done in three to five years, not a half century. So do you look for somebody who had a historical stake in the train?...
It is quite a challenge. Got ideas?

MX

How about Norfolk Southern? They're making a push into New England, they have a history of working with historic equipment under other ownership, and PAS is, after all, the Boston & Maine, although not a part of it that was frequently traversed by the Yankee. $3mm is a drop in the bucket for a company with $2.7 billion in revenue and $640 million in capital expenditures in the third quarter of 2012 alone.

Pan Am should buy it. It would be, by far, the coolest business train in the history of railroading.

Guys, throwing out speculations regarding who the "coolest" purchaser of the Yankee would be is great. However, it really doesn't do a thing for the situation unless you actively peddle your suggestion to the imagined potential buyer and the state of New Hampshire. One of the reasons why we have so much waste in the field of railway restoration (and I include myself in this group) is that railfans, by and large, are big on ideas but short on actual action. Any railway museum curator will tell you that many have ideas about restoring a car, few will donate $$$ and elbow grease to do it. In spite of what we have heard about the Yankee being given tender loving care, I have a real fear that if fantasizing without real action continues, that the Yankee is going the way of New Haven steamers. Thinking about it is great. But try to think up a plan that many of us can get behind to try to make it happen.

3rdrail wrote:Guys, throwing out speculations regarding who the "coolest" purchaser of the Yankee would be is great. However, it really doesn't do a thing for the situation unless you actively peddle your suggestion to the imagined potential buyer and the state of New Hampshire. One of the reasons why we have so much waste in the field of railway restoration (and I include myself in this group) is that railfans, by and large, are big on ideas but short on actual action. Any railway museum curator will tell you that many have ideas about restoring a car, few will donate $$$ and elbow grease to do it. In spite of what we have heard about the Yankee being given tender loving care, I have a real fear that if fantasizing without real action continues, that the Yankee is going the way of New Haven steamers. Thinking about it is great. But try to think up a plan that many of us can get behind to try to make it happen.

Ok,... NOW you're talking talk I can get behind.

Cosmo wrote: Ok,... NOW you're talking talk I can get behind.

Alright Cosmo ! I knew that I could depend on you ! Tell Wanda that I expect her to be right there with us !
Now, for the serious part of my post:

A Public Appeal
One of the interesting things about RRN is that we all are able to communicate with persons from all different walks of life and locations. I know that we have corporate executives out there among us who may not operate a suitable host for the Yankee, but might have considerable influence at another location which would. And of course, we may have as a RRN friend, one who is in the very position of saving this gracious and historic lady. I appeal to you, if any of this could be you, would you be so kind as to use your influence to help ? I am not going to insult your intelligene by trying to sell this project or the Flying Yankee itself, as I'm certain that she is precious to you also. I also respect the fact that you may wish to remain anonymous, and if you wish to help but remain in this fashion, you have my word that any confidence which you share with me will not be devulged by me. I see this as first involving a legal motion through the state of New Hampshire, requesting either part or full-time ownership with a firm plan of protective measures in place. This may be all that is required to seek ownership. If not, a federal motion may be required with "landmarking" something to consider. Once cleared, the logistics of removal and ultimate display should be already planned for with quick action to retrieve the Yankee. A plan of upkeep should also be planned for, including a suitable indoor facility to keep her in if non-operational. If operational, obviously a different plan would go into effect. Is anyone out there who this message appeals to ? If so, please contact me by private message if you wish, and I will be happy to discuss the project.

This October discussion reminds me of what is going on between the politians running for President ... I have seen a lot of talking, but you aren't saying anything
It is also like what goes on at a wake ... a lot of talk about the dealy departed.

One idea that was different was about putting the train set at the Museum of Penn, because of the Budd connection.
They have a lot of space inside and it sure would be seen by a lot of folks ... might be the most practical place to put her so that she will be saved forever.

The State of New Hampshire is the owner, they have the ability to resolve this matter.

It might be more easily justified for them to work with the State of Pennsylvania to relocate it to the RR Museum of Pennsylvania, than to continue to try to get this done through volunteer groups in New England. As I noted earlier, this project really needs to be completed in a time span of three to five years to allow reliable cost estimating and to get it completed before work already done needs to be re-done due to weather exposure. Getting it indoors would solve the weather deterioration problem, but not the cost inflation issue.

It should be pretty obvious by now that the State of New Hampshire is not going to appropriate the money to do the job.

I have doubts that in this economic environment any volunteer group is capable of finding the $600,000 a year in donations that would be needed to raise the estimated $3 Million for an operating restoration, within a five year time span.

Static display at the RR Museum of Pennsylvania would cut the project costs considerably, and they have a respected and well equipped restoration shop, that could continue the work at whatever pace available time and funding might allow.

And just to update the "example" provided in my previous posting with more accurate numbers, a little research showed the NRHS Heritage Grants for 2012 total $50,000. Suppose that the NRHS were to give their entire $50,000 of grant money to the Flying Yankee every year, it would still take sixty years to accumulate $3 Million to complete the running restoration, and by that time the cost would be much higher due to inflation. You can see that pace of accumulating money for the project does not offer much hope that it will ever be completed.

MX

Is the Flying Yankee for sale?

-otto-

How do we know it's really going to coast 2 to 3 million? There's nothing that backs up the claim, it would be nice to see it in writing (detailed coast of everything).
Someother things to consider after restoration:
1 - money to constuct shop facility and museum in Concord, and potential service stations elsewhere.
2 - operations/maintenance budget

The state really hasn't invested money outside of the grants awarded for its restoration and frankly, I don't see them doing so for the later.

(No Otto, I don't believe the Yankee is for sale, wishful thinking for some)

You expect to see anything honest and in writing about the funding?

$3,000,000.00 is a very reasonable assumption considering that A car has to be finished, a prime mover has to be purchased, all of the electrics have to be bought (Main and aux generators, all of the wiring done etc), C car still has to be finished, all of the seats and interior details are yet to be done, all of the federal and state inspections have to be done, the trainset has to be bluecarded, wavier paperwork for the set All of the needed upgraded FRA safety work done......and on and on and on.

I don't think $3,000,000.00 is that far off. After you buy all of the materiel, you have to pay someone to put it in. 3 mil to me seems to be at least in the ball park, give or take a few hundred thousand on either side.

And on top of all of that, you have to get the "studies" done in order to come to an informed decision. There has been no power study, stability study, or anything like that to help make any of the needed decisions on the set.

The "guesstimate" of $3 Million of work remaining has been mentioned to me several times over the last few years by people who were involved with the project.

It seems very reasonable, considering the cost of rebuilding the MBTA stretch F40s ten years ago was close to $2 Million per locomotive, with existing machinery.

I have also been told that no complete repowering proposal has been done recently for the FY so there is no accurate cost estimate for the remaining portion of the project.

It is not feasible to reliably cost estimate a job like this one until you have a viable repowering proposal in hand along with a bill of materials.

And to the best of my knowledge, the State has not reached any decisions about putting the train up for sale, at least not at the present time.

MX

I believe that the restoration of the NYC Hickory Creek some 10 years ago was around $800.000 give or take a bit. One passenger car. Granted, to Amtrak specs so it can travel.

mxdata wrote: the State has not reached any decisions about putting the train up for sale, at least not at the present time.

MX

Nor is there any inkling to hint that they are even CONSIDERING doing so... EVER.

Has anyone suggested to the state that if they were to fully fund restoration to the point of being able to operate the train, they could take it around as a mobile liquor store? How much could they make out of it if they parked it in Laconia for Bike Week, or near Loudon during a NASCAR weekend? They could probably pay off the restoration in a year!

markhb wrote:Has anyone suggested to the state that if they were to fully fund restoration to the point of being able to operate the train, they could take it around as a mobile liquor store? How much could they make out of it if they parked it in Laconia for Bike Week, or near Loudon during a NASCAR weekend? They could probably pay off the restoration in a year!

Bingo! The Flying Sin Tax...