R.I.P., MetroRail: What's Next?

Anonymous wrote:Hi:
My impression is that a company in Colorado (or someplace) has rebuilt RDCs with Cummings diesel motors that are considered very reliable.

Colorado Railcar http://www.coloradorailcar.com makes a modern, FRA compliant DMU that would be a perfect fit for SEPTA. It can even tow up to two unpowered coaches. CRC even did a proposed paint scheme of what it would look like in SEPTA colors:

I have seen diesels pass through the tunnel though - I think it was the Strasburg RR.
greg19050

(Strasburg RR doesn't have any road going diesels. #33 is a 44 ton diesel and that's their biggest one.) I've heard of diesel powered SEPTA maintenance trains going through there, but not regular service trains which would stop and fume up the Market Street East station complex.

JimE
Jim's train pages

Anonymous wrote:Hi:
My impression is that a company in Colorado (or someplace) has rebuilt RDCs with Cummings diesel motors that are considered very reliable. Also, I am not sure if RDCs had bathrooms (Maybe Irish Chieftan knows about this), but I would rather ride to Reading in a fifty year old RDC with a bathroom than a trolley with no bathrooms. I am sure that they could be retrofitted to meet FRA requirements.
Also, there is a non-electrified connector between the NEC and the inbound tracks of the Norristown line that could be used to route trains from Notown onto the NEC although there are problems with this scenario with the heavy traffic on the NEC and the need for switching to the outbound tracks. There might also be problems for outbound trains on the NEC that would have to cross over as well. At least that would be one way to at least get trains from the R6 to the upper (or lower) level of 30th street station.
Also, I think the problem with changing the ventilation at Market East and Suburban Station for accommodating diesels is that there would have to be asbestos removal from Suburban Station. I have seen diesels pass through the tunnel though - I think it was the Strasburg RR.
greg19050

Taking your points in order:

Colorado Railcar has built a new prototype diesel MU--it's not a rebuilt RDC. The DMU is presently in a year-long revenue service test on Tri-Rail in Miami. The car does look promising for new-start commuter rail service, but they have not yet received any production orders, nor have they built a second unit, AFAIK. The DMU meets all current FRA requirements.

The connecting track between the Norristown Branch and the NEC is rather steep and sharply curved, and it is classed as excepted track, so no passenger service could be run over it. I'm not sure what if anything has ever moved over it. There are a number of other potential problems with using this track for Schuylkill Valley or other regular service too. The easiest way to get trains from Schuylkill Valley down to 30th St. would be to make a connection between the ex-PRR and ex-Reading north of Ivy Ridge, and this is part of some of the proposed alternatives.

SEPTA routinely runs some of its own diesels through the tunnel. IIRC, there are certain restrictions, such as having the entire move lined and clear before the diesel is permitted to enter.

In case anyone was wondering, on Tri-Rail, the CRC DMU is push-pulling two Bombardier bilevels in place of using three bilevels with an F40PH. Pic from their website is below:



If this DMU were to MU with a pair of Silverliners, then a dual-mode operation could indeed be instituted, which would be similar to the Flexliner EMU/DMU dual-mode operations in Denmark. That of course depends on the pulling power of the Silverliners insofar as moving a dead-in-tow DMU as well as providing HEP to same...(and for the record, the DMU does have such capabilities)

Industrial Rail Services of Moncton, NB is the outfit that is rebuilding and upgrading RDCs. There was a link on the old forum, and also a letter in the April Trains magazine about their product.

The "Green Goat. RailPower's hybrid diesel-battery locomotive now fulfills the need to move non-electric trains thru the center city tunnel. It can run some distance (1.5 mile is enough) on its batteries alone.

If someone (like GE) develops a dual-mode locomotive using a [b]gas turbine instead of diesel[/b], it would fit in a package the same size as a conventional dual-mode engine. Power changeover could be at the Norristown TC. We'd need the dual-mode, and willingness to do the project on the part of SEPTA.

Thanks EDM5970. I could not remember what the name of the company was. Also, I distinctly remember a tourist train going through the commuter tunnel a few years back around 8 PM or so in the evening. It might have been that tourist line that is located in Chester County. Anyway, I am sure I saw a diesel-powered tourist train go through the tunnel. Or, maybe I was hallucinating from the diesel fumes.
greg19050

Gas turbines would be even worse for dual-mode than diesel. NY State's rebuilt Turboliners are bearing that out at present; also, the LIRR had their Grumman M-1 dual mode turbine MUs, which did not last long at all. (Also, all dual-mode rail vehicles, whether gas-turbine or diesel, do their switchovers on the fly.)

As for diesels operating through tunnels, it has been pointed out already that the troublesome part is not the tunnel, but underground stations and exhaust while the diesel is standing.

Re: the connection between the NEC and 16th St. Junction at North Philadelphia: I was on a trip the Phila chapter of the NRHS ran in June of 2000 behind the 2 restored RDG FP7's 902 and 903, hauling Bombardier coaches usually on the push-pull trains. The reason they could not run through the tunnel (we were told) was because of close clearance between the horns on the FP7's and the catenary! They could have run through without stopping. That trip left the upper level of 30th St. and lost an hour (!) just getting to N Phila and getting clearance from the Amtrak dispatcher to run wrong-rail to that connecting track. Once we got down the ramp we had to saw back and forth to get to the outbound track of the Norristown Line.
I recently read that NS has approached PennDOT to express their interest in running a commuter-rail version of the Schuylkill Valley Metro - anyone know more about that? It makes sense given that they would probably get some nice tax breaks a la the Susquehanna's RDC shuttle in Syracuse - if that's still running - plus I read that NS is interested in being the operator of the proposed commuter service in the Atlanta area.