ALP 44's

cruiser939 wrote:

beanbag wrote:

cruiser939 wrote:

beanbag wrote:

cruiser939 wrote:

beanbag wrote: Oh man that is hard for me to look at.. Joe how didyou get so close for those pics.. Are you allowed to just go up to them without hassle? Because if I could go up next to 4405 like that I would in a heartbeat. I'd like to know so maybe I could go next week

No, you are not allowed to just wander through a NJT yard. If I ever learned of you doing this, I would personally make sure that you received a visit from the NJTPD to receive your trespassing summons. I would also make sure that NJT sent you the cleaning bill for removal of the foam and "other" bodily fluids that you left on the 4405.

That's why I checked with him Cruiser, I was wondering if the 44s were near the edge of the yard, likes said I could not tell he was on the train. Joe and I cleared this up a long time ago.

You mean a whole two days ago? Wowzers, didn't know that I was dredging up ancient history.

I thanked him for the help and moved on from it. I was under the impression that once you say thank you for the help the subject is done. Correct me if I'm wrong, I got what I damn needed and that is that. No freakin reason that 4405 had to be dragged into it like that, yeah, I like 4405, big freakin whoop we all have our favorites. Are you really picking a fight with me over something I said last week? Real mature cruiser, like I said, Joe and I cleared it up. Let it freakin go.

I'm sorry for "dragging" your beloved 4405 into it like that. Please apologize to her the next time you see her. Wait a sec, I didn't "drag" the 4405 into this, you mentioned that locomotive first when you were professing your undying love for it.

Thanks for the lunatic response though, I think we all just got a look into the crazy mind of beanbag...

I wasn't even referring to 4405 itself with that last one, I was reffering to the bodily fluids part and how unnecessary that comment was, just without saying it directly because that would be inappropriate and I'm not interested in setting off Nick and Brandon. Geez, 4405 is 10-20 minutes from my house.. you make it sound like I was planning on driving across the country to find the thing. Last thing I'm saying on the topic. Alright sorry JT and Sid im done.

beanbag wrote:Geez, 4405 is 10-20 minutes from my house.. you make it sound like I was planning on driving across the country to find the thing.

I don't really want to speak on his behalf, but... I think the issue Cruiser had (and it raised my eyebrows) was that you were asking about the accessibility of 4405 along with the rest of the '44s. It came across that you were going to wander around a rail yard, unsupervised and without permission. In this day and age that is NOT OKAY. Whether the locomotives are stored deep in the yard or on the outskirts of the yard does not make it any different for a civilian to peruse through the property without permission and supervision.

Sid Farkus wrote:

beanbag wrote:Geez, 4405 is 10-20 minutes from my house.. you make it sound like I was planning on driving across the country to find the thing.

I don't really want to speak on his behalf, but... I think the issue Cruiser had (and it raised my eyebrows) was that you were asking about the accessibility of 4405 along with the rest of the '44s. It came across that you were going to wander around a rail yard, unsupervised and without permission. In this day and age that is NOT OKAY. Whether the locomotives are stored deep in the yard or on the outskirts of the yard does not make it any different for a civilian to peruse through the property without permission and supervision.

It seems like you could have in fact spoken on my behalf and you would have nailed it. You're a smart cookie, which begs the question; what are you doing posting here?

Beanbag, why do you insist on referring to this inanimate object as a human being?

Sid Farkus wrote:

beanbag wrote:Geez, 4405 is 10-20 minutes from my house.. you make it sound like I was planning on driving across the country to find the thing.

I don't really want to speak on his behalf, but... I think the issue Cruiser had (and it raised my eyebrows) was that you were asking about the accessibility of 4405 along with the rest of the '44s. It came across that you were going to wander around a rail yard, unsupervised and without permission. In this day and age that is NOT OKAY. Whether the locomotives are stored deep in the yard or on the outskirts of the yard does not make it any different for a civilian to peruse through the property without permission and supervision.

Understood Sid. I hear you. I probably was not going to be able to get up there anyway and even if I had I would've likely taken a train past it. I was just wondering if the 44s were in a good spot accessibility wise, like near a road, upon my intial question to Joe. If the 44s were in fact (which it seems they are) in such a place where I could not get to them without walking on NJT property, I know better and I would not do it. Now I know what I need to know and Cruiser can relax, he won't be seeing me in or around Port Morris. Save the cleaning bill for TRE/HBLR/25Hz will ya Cruiser.

NorEasterNick wrote:Beanbag, why do you insist on referring to this inanimate object as a human being?

Not answering this, read the initial argument, thats all I'm going to say.

cruiser939 wrote:You're a smart cookie, which begs the question; what are you doing posting here?

I had the choice of serving a prison sentence or periodically posting on "railroad.net" as punishment for my crime. I chose the latter, and realize that I may have made the wrong choice...

If I may ask a serious question...anyone know what kind of razor blades these will become?

jlr3266 wrote:If I may ask a serious question...anyone know what kind of razor blades these will become?

the cheap kind.

cruiser939 wrote:

Amtrak7 wrote:From the MMC tour: 5 at a time are being prepped for storage with windows boarded and pans removed. Eventually all will be moved to Port Morris. The tour guide believed that some NJT rules/locomotive financing rules are preventing their disposal. SEPTA is looking into "borrowing" them.

They aren't NJT rules preventing NJT from getting rid of the ALP-44's, it's federal rules since there were federal funds involved with the acquisition of the locomotives. It's amazing how stupid many things government related are. NJT had a taker for every single ALP-44 who wanted to take delivery of them asap and the feds wouldn't let us move them because they hadn't fully depreciated in contract value yet. That's the government for you...

At the risk of asking a series of questions that I will probably not get answers to... I'm going to ask them anyway. I know I might not get answers (because it's "secret" information, they're stupid questions, or just because Cruiser just doesn't feel like answering ), but what do I have to lose (probably a lot)

1. What's the "required depreciation value?" Also, at what point (give or take) will this value be reached (I realize the timelines are likely different for the different groups of units)?

2. Who was the taker for the units? What was to be done with them once they passed into new hands (as in were they to be rebuilt for service, put in service as is, scrapped, or something completely different)?

3. Assuming that the possibility of other means of sale/disposal do not come up between now and the "OK to sell" date, would this taker still be interested in them once they depreciate enough in value?

4. After they depreciate in value and are "legally" put up for sale, say for all intents and purposes that there are no buyers at that time. Is there any idea on how long they would be kept "for sale" before they would just be scrapped?

I think that's it. *Awaiting sarcastic/mocking response*

Not to speak for Cruiser, but I doubt you are going to get any kind of concrete answers to those questions Joe, although they are very very good....ive been wondering the same things actually.

I think some of them might be around for a while.....considering the Ms are only about 16 years old. I BELIEVE there might be a timeframe with regard to how long equipment must be kept by the railroad if there was some Federal money used to purchase them. Considering the Os are now about 22 years old (wow) I think it might be a longer time period than that....I would guess maybe 25 years?

I think the Comet 3s might be in a similar kind of situation.

I wonder if the Arrow 1s weren't in a similar situation way back when...they were unreliable as EMUs and pulled from service after about 10 years (about 1979 IIRC). They then sat in storage for nearly 10 years before NJT decided to rebuild them into trailers in 1987 when the Comet 1s were sent out to be rebuilt. I doubt they were paid for by the time they were pulled from service as EMUs.

If that was the case, I wonder how Amtrak was able to get rid of the E60s so early then - they got rid of a good number of them in the early 80s to NJT to replace the GG1s. They were like less than 10 years old. Maybe because they had reliability issues some of these requirements were overlooked (if they even existed then? I have no idea)

At least they are being secured for storage, and not parked on a siding somewhere out in the middle of nowhere and risk getting vandalized, like copper cables cut, etc. Putting Pans back on is no big deal, it takes literally an hour if that. Bring loco into shop, use overhead crane to pick up pan, put pan on loco, hook up pan, bolt it down and go to the other one

Jt, I'm glad someone else was wondering the same things. I know I probably won't get concrete answers (if anything at all), but I figured at least someone else had to be wondering the same things, so I figured I'd just be "that guy" that asks

Your theory on a 25 year contract sounds as if that could very well be the case. I was thinking more about a contract for 20 years, but seeing that the O's are already past that time. I guess the taker could have had an all-or-nothing deal and is waiting for the contracts for the rest of the units to be up, but I doubt that's the case.

As soon as the mention of the contracts came up, I also thought about the Comet III's. A contract is probably the only reason they've been parked for over two years and have yet to be sold/scrapped.

To my knowledge, this is the fastest turnover of equipment in NJT's history, so that's why this is the first time these problems are taking place.

NorEasterNick- I'm happy to see you've changed, because years ago, you were a pain in the backside in here.
cruiser939- Let's leave references to "bodily fluids" outside of conversations, OK?
beanbag- They all have valid points, just saying. Don't take everything personal.

To The Rest: Thank you for keeping something of a topic alive. Please don't feed the fire with more fuel. I'd hate to have to shut this conversation down and zap a gazillion posts to the point where it doesn't make sense.

nick11a wrote:NorEasterNick- I'm happy to see you've changed, because years ago, you were a pain in the backside in here.
cruiser939- Let's leave references to "bodily fluids" outside of conversations, OK?
beanbag- They all have valid points, just saying. Don't take everything personal.

To The Rest: Thank you for keeping something of a topic alive. Please don't feed the fire with more fuel. I'd hate to have to shut this conversation down and zap a gazillion posts to the point where it doesn't make sense.

Yes, they did have valid points. What set me off was the bodily fluids comment, I was taking everything just fine up until then.

People on the SEPTA forum are saying

aem7 wrote:SEPTA is looking to purchase, not lease, two or three ALP-44s from NJT.

Here is the thread: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 72&t=95851. What's the deal? I keep hearing the ALP-44s are done, then I hear they're not. Let's sort this out! If they are coming to SEPTA that would be sweet. Oh, and by the way ns3010 nice pics!