Grafton & Upton Railroad (G&U) Discussion

The real bummer is that they can't get over to the P&W. They'll be dependent on CSX from either direction.

Cosmo wrote:The real bummer is that they can't get over to the P&W. They'll be dependent on CSX from either direction.

It's going to take a loooooooooooooot of convincing to get the T and DCR onboard with restoring the Franklin Line to Blackstone. They were outright hostile to RIDOT about answering simple questions when the Woonsocket commuter rail study was being conducted in the early-90's. Hopefully the agencies being consolidated under the EOT cuts out some of the old counterproductive turf wars and at least allows some what-if productive dialogue, but it's going to take a long time to rein it in. The T is still well out-of-step with the recommendations of the EOT's own State Rail Plan when it comes to system preservation and freight accommodation.

I'm not sure what purpose a P&W connection would serve, though. G&U is too small-potatoes for P&W to be interested in direct-interchange at the kind of expense involved for restoring Franklin-Blackstone. They would only want it to get to Boston, which CSX is extremely unlikely to ever let them do. And they can pretty much already pass the goods they need to G&U via CSX. I don't think this gap in system connectivity gets talked about at a conceptual level until RIDOT is online with Providence-Woonsocket CR and is very aggressively lobbying Massachusetts for Boston-Woonsocket and Worcester-Woonsocket-Providence to make that a key hub for their state. Which they will do...they've made it pretty clear how bullish they are on it after South County CR and Providence-Woonsocket are both online in about 10 years. Worcester's a no-brainer if P&W gets passenger-upgraded to Woonsocket as a RIDOT project. I still think MA will be very resistant to opening up the Franklin connection, but at least at that point RIDOT will be on their case and the discussion will be throwing any freight excuses they can find at the wall to see if there's a plausible justification that'll stick.

The committe is being mocked: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opini ... -hypocrisy

The latest hypocrisy being their quest for “certain” railroad crossings be exempt from those terrible train whistles. A quiet zone I think they called it. I wonder what “certain” crossings they’re referring to? Is it Plain St, Pleasant St., Mendon Street, Grove Street, Walnut Street, or Williams Street, or is it just Hartford Avenue, and Maple Avenue that you’re concerned about.

...

Get over it, committee. Each session you report on makes you look more foolish than the last. Be happy, it may bring some much needed small industry to our little berg.

Read more: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opini ... z1odP7xSJJ

papabarn wrote:From the Milford Daily News, Friday 20 January 2012, By Morgan Rousseau/Daily News staff.

UPTON —

Members of a town board assigned to look into how a local railroad affects public health and safety gave the go-ahead yesterday to research eight out of 10 member-submitted questions.

The Upton Railroad Fact Finding Committee met last night to go over questions that were submitted by board members Diana DelGrosso, Gary Bohan and Bill Taylor.

The Grafton & Upton Railroad operates on Maple Avenue under federal exemption from local oversight, which has drawn concerns from the public in recent months.

Read more:http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/x7 ... oad?zc_p=0

Nice piece on the G&U in yesterday's Globe

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articl ... _industry/

Whoa!!!

From The Daily Grafton: "Winter may also bring a change to the Grafton & Upton line: through an agreement with Warner Bros., Delli Priscoli may bring in the Polar Express to provide passenger rides".

Hmmmm.. [Thoughts of a (re?)installed westbound link to the Worcester line, a couple of RDCs, "one seat" ride Milford - Worcester are dancing in my head..]. Naaahhh.. Never happen...

What do the tank cars at the G&U yard carry? who are the customers in the area that they serve?

papabarn wrote:
Hmmmm.. [Thoughts of a (re?)installed westbound link to the Worcester line, a couple of RDCs, "one seat" ride Milford - Worcester are dancing in my head..]. Naaahhh.. Never happen...

Anyone know if there ever was a westbound link to the mainline? A quick look with bing maps shows it would be close to impossible to install one now.

According to a map way back -- and mentioned and, I think, linked pages early on this thread -- there was a connection to the G&U off the B&A EB -- now 2 -- track. It was disconnected at a time unknown to me. The disconnected alignment -- per an older G&U engineer in the 1980s -- was used as a layover stub for trolleys during that period of G&U history.
Given the lack of crumple protection with RDCs, CSX might not be happy with potential liability issues

jaymac wrote:Given the lack of crumple protection with RDCs, CSX might not be happy with potential liability issues

Are RDC's that much different in crumple protection from the cab control cars currently in use by the (T)?

papabarn wrote:

jaymac wrote:Given the lack of crumple protection with RDCs, CSX might not be happy with potential liability issues

Are RDC's that much different in crumple protection from the cab control cars currently in use by the (T)?

RDC's are fine on crumple protection. Fully within the FRA's ages-old draconian requirements, which haven't strengthened that much since Budds were last in widespread commuter rail service in the early 90's. They don't need any waivers to run in the limited places they're still around. Also don't see how push-pull would even be possible if control cabs weren't tip-top on the requirements.

Only thing G&U's got to get a waiver for is from dispatch to run an excursion in cab signal territory. Pretty sure the T has enough Xmas spirit for the kids to allow that once a year during some dead spot in the December weekend schedule.

Some of the post-collision photos of RDCs might argue against vestibule integrity, particularly when compromised even further by half a century or more of weathering and other fatigue. Whether the T -- given its current money problems -- would be willing to entertain liability issues is another concern.

One only needs to look at photos from crash incidents involving cab cars -- newer and built to higher crash standards than RDCs -- to see that passengers are safer with a locomotive* at both ends of the train.


*the new, beefed-up cab cars being used by Metrolink are a direct response to this problem, and were designed to be nearly as good as having a locomotive in the lead, in terms of crash protection.

MEC407 wrote:One only needs to look at photos from crash incidents involving cab cars -- newer and built to higher crash standards than RDCs -- to see that passengers are safer with a locomotive* at both ends of the train.


*the new, beefed-up cab cars being used by Metrolink are a direct response to this problem, and were designed to be nearly as good as having a locomotive in the lead, in terms of crash protection.

Out of curiosity, i wonder if the Roger Williams set could be used in this possible "polar express". The end units are equipped with locomotive style cabs, and the owner has been trying to find a place to run them. Maybe both parties could benefit from such an arrangement. Drat... Now where did I put that flak jacket?

daylight4449 wrote:

MEC407 wrote:One only needs to look at photos from crash incidents involving cab cars -- newer and built to higher crash standards than RDCs -- to see that passengers are safer with a locomotive* at both ends of the train.


*the new, beefed-up cab cars being used by Metrolink are a direct response to this problem, and were designed to be nearly as good as having a locomotive in the lead, in terms of crash protection.

Out of curiosity, i wonder if the Roger Williams set could be used in this possible "polar express". The end units are equipped with locomotive style cabs, and the owner has been trying to find a place to run them. Maybe both parties could benefit from such an arrangement. Drat... Now where did I put that flak jacket?

Well, actually...
...I've heard worse suggestions.
I think it'd mostly be a case of getting them both to sit down and talk.

there are no economics in a move that has two shortlines in a class 1 move, today, in massachusetts. to suggest that the mbta restore to blackstone cannot survive the straight-face test for freight. everyone should appreciate history. massachusetts shortlines are doomed to a marginal existence in the absence of a state mandate for pricing on massachusetts-owned rail. our state dot is staffed by lawyers who don't understand that railroad 'costs' are always accompanied by 'smoke'. i believe it's time for our state to enjoy a real return on taxpayer's investment. how else to encourage new traffic? ken patrick