Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby eehiv » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:58 pm

Without railbanking, the County will need to negotiate a purchase or change of use for the 35 existing easements between CSX and the Ashokan Reservoir. Each easement states that is for "perpetually for all the uses and purposes convenience and necessary for a railroad". This is certainly not impossible, but may take both time and perseverance. EH
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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby lvrr325 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:02 pm

BR&P wrote:In New York State, adverse possession does not apply to municipally owned property. Just how that ties into the situation being discussed I'm not able to say, as I have not followed the complete history of the dispute.


Just reading back a few posts helps, since the STB came back and said the line was abandoned in 1977, and now reversionary clauses apply to the property, it's like the county never owned it. The railroad may even have a claim to sue for it's lease payments back because of this. The county can't lease the property if it belongs to the adjacent landowners. But, CMR has been using portions of the property for about 25 years. Therefore they may be able to claim the property as squatters. I don't know the specifics of NYS law, but IMHO it's worth looking at, because it would be a great amusing irony if the CMR came out of this owning the portions of the corridor they can claim they were using all this time.

Further, I suspect nothing stops the railroad from also negotiating purchase of segments of the corridor from the adjacent owners.
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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby Ken W2KB » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:13 pm

nydepot wrote:Sorry, squatters have rights if they have been using the property for a certain amount of time - read years. Dates back to old English law and it was proved legal in NYS by the appeals court maybe a decade ago.

Seems some guy downstate had been using a portion of his neighbors property for a while and then the neighbor said no. Went to court and the neighbor lost. The man got to keep using the property as his own.

That's why you need a legal agreement or an easement or something. If you let your neighbor use a 1/2 acre in your back 40, you may lose it.


You misunderstood my "legally squatters have no rights" comment. By definition squatters don't have any legal rights. Once a squatter has met the very stringent time, open, notorious, continuous uninterrupted use, adverse without permission, with claim of right, etc. requirements for the requisite time period (10, 20 or even 50 years depending on the jurisdiction and the nature of the property and the use) they are no longer squatters; what in effect happens is that the original owner at that point is prevented, similar to a statute of limitations, from enforcing his rights so person originally a squatter can no longer be ejected from the property, and thus is no longer a squatter because he now has a legal right to the use of the property. So the instant he acquires rights he is not a squatter; the instant before he is a squatter with no rights.

As to the instance you mentioned, if someone allows another person to use their property the use is permissive, not adverse, and no rights can be acquired by the user no matter how much time elapses. A legal agreement is a good idea, but not essential to preserving one's rights. What happened in the instance to which you refer is most likely that the owner said no to the user but did nothing for the statutory period of years to legally eject the user. Saying "no" made any continued use from that point in time adverse and started the statute of limitations clock running. One easy way for an owner to retain full rights is to use to property himself to the exclusion of others for a brief time once every year or two and maintain a record of that use. That is why many buildings in Manhattan close off their pedestrian plaza and a portion of the sidewalk they may own immediately next to the building with barriers one night a year for a few hours. That prevents any third party from claiming continuous use (i.e., I walked my dog there every night for 25 years without permission) and preserves the owner's interest in the property.
~Ken :: Fairmont ex-UP/MP C436 MT-14M1 ::
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]
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CMRR Work Report - June 20 to 23

Postby eehiv » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:10 pm

Wednesday June 20th

Rob Gaston and Art Vogel removed the last items out of the container at Westbrook to the new container at the ball field.


Friday June 22nd

Earl Pardini and Bryan Van Kirk worked on rebuilding the passenger bridges between the flat cars and the coaches in Kingston.


Saturday June 23rd

Ernie Klopping and Martin Elbrecht worked on car 2949's generator.

The PEACE TRAIN made three runs Saturday at 3pm, 5pm, and 7pm. Engineer was Tom Whyte, Ray Farrell was conductor, Bryan Van Kirk was brakeman, Fred Ehren and Russ Hallock were flaggers. Al Schoessow assisted. Peter Fluchere, Marcia Roosa and Pat Smalley were in the ticket booth. Rob Gaston was event coordinator.


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CMRR Work Report - June 25 to 30

Postby eehiv » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:20 pm

Week of June 25 to 29

The week of June 25 to 29, Earl Pardini and Bryan Van Kirk began preparations for rebuilding of rail at the Dog Crossing.

June 30, 2018

On Saturday, June 30th, Earl Pardini led a crew consisting of Bryan Van Kirk, Russ Hallock, Raphael DeMeglio and John Marino who installed 77 ties and 8 rails in the cut east of the Dog Crossing.

Also on June 30th, the Peace Train ran in Kingston. Bryan Van Kirk was engineer, Neil Isabelle was conductor, Art Vogel was brakeman, and Fred Ehren and I were flagmen. Marcia Roosa and Pat Smalley were in the ticket booth.

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CMRR Work Report - July 1 to 7, 2018

Postby eehiv » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:19 pm

Week of July 1, 2, 5

The week of July 1 to 5, Earl Pardini and Bryan Van Kirk installed more rail at the Dog crossing and spiked all ties installed to date. They were helped Tuesday by Tom Whyte, Russell Hallock, and Martin Elbrecht.

July 7, 2018

On Saturday, June 30th, Earl Pardini led a crew consisting of Bryan Van Kirk, Russ Hallock, Martin Elbrecht and John Marino who installed plated and spiked many ties at the current end of track.

Also on July 7th, the GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY Train ran in Kingston. Tom Whyte was engineer, Tony Bocchino was conductor, Karl Wick was brakeman, and Fred Ehren and I were flagmen, and Jess Pucchio was flagman trainee. Peter Fluchere and Pat Smalley were in the ticket booth.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=244789

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=244788


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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby airman00 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:43 pm

https://www.facebook.com/notes/ud-railw ... 861199653/

"UC Executive Hein is trying to float an $8.9 million dollar bond without public input. In my opinion it should be put up for vote via a referendum . He is putting it up to legislative vote only. There are a few other related items that may require tax payers to pay the bill..."
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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby BandA » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:53 pm

Wow.
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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby airman00 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:01 pm

On the U&D Facebook page their is a transcript of a press conference/press release they had yesterday. I’d post the link, but it’s long. Interesting read...
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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby Dick H » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:27 pm

Use this URL to shorten the link. Thanks.
https://tinyurl.com/
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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby Otto Vondrak » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:44 pm

airman00 wrote:On the U&D Facebook page their is a transcript of a press conference/press release they had yesterday. I’d post the link, but it’s long. Interesting read...


Is this what you're talking about? Just post the link next time...

https://www.facebook.com/notes/ud-railw ... 604089712/

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CMRR Work Report - July 11 to 14

Postby eehiv » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:08 am

Week of July 11, 13, 14

The week of July 11 to 14, Earl Pardini and Bryan Van Kirk installed more rail at the Dog crossing and spiked all ties installed to date. They were helped Friday by Raphael DeMeglio, Russell Hallock, and Todd Syska.


July 12th, 2018


On July 12th we ran a special charter. Bryan Van Kirk was engineer, Earl Pardini Conductor, Walt Otto was brakeman, Todd Syska and Peter Fluchere were flaggers.


July 14, 2018

On July 14th, the PEACE TRAIN ran in Kingston. Brian Van Kirk was engineer, Karl Wick was conductor, Neil Isabelle was brakeman, and Steve Stanton, Peter Fluchere and I were flagmen. Peter Fluchere and Pat Smalley were in the ticket booth.



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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby BandA » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:26 am

Should the CMRR now pro-rate their lease payments to the county to account for the segments that the county doesn't own?
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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby BandA » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:27 am

We know about the County government. What is the present relationship with the City of Kingston?
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Re: Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

Postby thebigham » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:05 pm

^It's better:

https://www.facebook.com/CatskillMounta ... =3&theater

Thank you Ulster County Chamber of Commerce for hosting Ribbon Cutting of PEACE TRAIN with Kingston Mayor Steve Noble and CMRR President Ernest Hunt.
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