SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby ExCon90 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:54 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:Since the majority of riders from TRE are not regulars there will have tobe a plan worked out just how to collect these fares. Will there be a type of ticket be introduced to be used at Key readers meaning that NJT may be no longer able to sell SEPTA tickets without a Key function?
SEPTA may have to again place their own TVMs at TRE...

Key readers at TRE will have to be well marked "FOR SEPTA Regional Rail USE ONLY" so that those not affected (NJT riders) can ignore them...

Many of the busiest travel days of the year will be in the upcoming three months - with Thanksgiving the best example just over two months away...MACTRAXX

This looks like being one more "oh, right..." moment; more details they likely haven't thought of.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby bikentransit » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:41 pm

So for those of us who don't ride SEPTIC daily but have a key card, it's essentially useless on the trains until they get around to turning that part of it on.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby rdgrailfan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:56 am

I used my Senior Key card yesterday on a trip from Glenside to 30th Street.
Inbound the AC hit my card on his hand held, at 30th street exiting the line to tap out was long ...they opened the gates to clear the flood of people.
Outbound went to tap in attendant told me ....just go....not working. On the train the AC just looked at my card said he did not have a reader.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MichaelBug » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:17 am

On both Friday 9/14 & Monday 9/17, I used the elevator from Filbert St. (street level) to access Jefferson Station Track 1 for Train 6576 to North Wales. Both times, the validator at platform level was out of order. The ambassador waved me through on Friday; on Monday, his back was turned to the elevator (& me) & I walked right past him & through the open turnstile unchallenged. On both trips, I had the conductor open my trip with his validator so I could tap out at North Wales without any further issues later.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:36 am

rdgrailfan wrote:I used my Senior Key card yesterday on a trip from Glenside to 30th Street.
Inbound the AC hit my card on his hand held, at 30th street exiting the line to tap out was long ...they opened the gates to clear the flood of people. Outbound went to tap in attendant told me ....just go....not working. On the train the AC just looked at my card said he did not have a reader.

I used my Senior Key last Friday to go from 30th Street to Norristown. No problems getting on; the turnstile worked as easily as those on the El or BSS, but it was off-hours so there weren't a lot of people trying to go through at the same time. Towards the end of the trip the conductor asked me for my card but didn't have a hand-held & just did a cursory visual check, probably didn't even look at the picture to make sure I wasn't trying to be one of those fare-beating grayhairs that 1234's so concerned about.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby Quinn » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:12 pm

Rode the Media line into Suburban today. First platform reader at Clifton wouldn’t read the Key card, second one did. Conductor just did a visual check, and told me to tap out when I got into the city. An ambassador at the Suburban turnstiles told me not to tap out; tapping out begins “on the first”.

When I look at my trips today online, the subsequent subway ride showed up. The regional rail trip did not, so I guess they aren’t tallying those yet. Might be a bit of lost revenue out there.

Edit: on my trip home, the conductor refused to accept Travel Wallet on the Key. Passes only. I and few other confused passengers had to scramble for cash. This system is a mess!
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby ChemiosMurphy » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:27 am

What a bungled launch with reports of some conductors accepting them and some not.

SEPTA's website doesn't do much to answer the question of regional rail either. How to not roll a product out...
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:13 am

MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone:
Each TVM - and each tap reader on platforms - should have a distinct number so any problems can be reported promptly. Example: The readers on the high-level platform at North Wales can
be identified - Northbound platform NWN1,2,3,4; Southbound platform NWS1,2,3,4 along with a toll-free number to report any Key system problems...
I will comment further on this subject in a subsequent post...MACTRAXX

Everyone: This is how the Key reader/TVM identification system could work: Each reader or TVM would have a code: The first two letters would represent the station: N or S representing
platforms on the RDG side-E or W on the Pennsy side and again numbers with #1 closest to the Center City bound direction. Another example-Paoli: PAE1,2,3,4 (eastbound platform)
TVM Kiosks should have a distinct number ID: On the LIRR TVMS are identified by a two or three digit station number: Penn Station is 12. TVMs there begin with 1201.
Parking Lot machines can use an ID code something like this: Ryers Station (two parking machines) could have RYP1,2. I posted on this subject a few pages back and want to add ideas.

There needs to be implemented an easy way to quickly identify defective Key equipment so SEPTA can be aware of problems and repair them ASAP...MACTRAXX
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Re: "SEPTA Key": Conversion brings Legacy Pass problems?

Postby MACTRAXX » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:24 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone:

1-Those that have any remaining Convenience Passes should use them before October 1st - at that point they will only be valid on vehicles that directly collect fares...
With the fare collection change - and no more cashiers to punch rides on CVPs - they will no longer be valid at any rapid transit stations.

3-Those that use legacy Independence Passes at rapid transit stations may encounter these new problems:
Riders that have these passes will have to find the Customer Service Attendant (formerly Cashier) to get in the paid area at stations
and more importantly those with unused I Passes to be punched with the month and day may no longer be able to use them - what
riders may have to do is ride a vehicle or RRD train first for the I Pass to be validated...These are problems that do not exist under
the current transit station fare collection in which a cashier can easily punch and validate an I Pass...
MACTRAXX

Everyone: I bumped up my earlier post concerning CVP and I Passes because of something I took
notice to this past Thursday: That afternoon I went to use a CVP (my final one BTW) for my trip on
that day from Telford to CCP: 132-96-NHSL-MFSE to be exact. I boarded the bus and the first thing
that the driver did was "wave" me on. After reaching Lansdale I then decided not to use the CVP -
primarily due to the time factor. I bought a $3.75 RRD intermediate ticket to ride down to FRTC
and then take the BSL using one token to purchase a single-ride Quick Trip (my first one ever)
instead of dropping my token at the cashier booth. I noticed that the price was $2 and that the
payment type was noted as a token. I wanted to test this knowing that it will be necessary to use
QT TVMs W/tokens or cash beginning 10/1. I took the fast ride down to Walnut-Locust on the BSL
with good connections at Lansdale and FRTC much quicker then my original route to use the CVP.

What I noticed that was the bus operator likely may have had no round hole punch to validate
passes such as the CVP or I Pass that do require being punched with the month and day to be
valid for use - and with the changes being implemented on 10/1 that there may be problems
encountered on vehicles that directly collect fares if and when operators do not have a hole
punch in their possession. That obviously would not affect I Pass use on RRD trains.

Operators not having hole punches in their possession may have become a problem brought
on by the elimination of paper transfers and the conversion of more pass types such as the
legacy CVP to be under the Key. I noticed riders on CTD buses still using CVPs as recently
as last month and that the SEPTA Store sold them until July. If anyone encounters problems
using legacy I Passes or CVP's please reply...

Thoughts anyone? MACTRAXX
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:05 am

Well, come October 1st when the turnstiles come online at the the Subway-Surface trolley stations at 19th and 22nd street, it will be impossible to enter with just a legacy CVP or I Pass (those will be unmanned as far as I can tell). OTOH, they could always travel east to 15th street and turn around that way, so whatever, I guess...
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:16 pm

JLE (and Everyone)
The 19th and 22nd Street S/S Stations westbound should have attendants on duty to monitor the
new Key fare collection equipment when they are placed into service on 10/1. The question is if
these staffers can honor legacy I Passes for entry at these two locations which remains to be seen.

Since all riders using these two stations will need to use the new fare equipment SEPTA will need
to have employees on duty to help riders use the new TVMs and turnstiles and keep watch on both
for the time being at least... MACTRAXX
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:20 pm

Everyone:
With Monday 10/1 fare changes being implemented on the Market-Frankford and Broad Street Lines
and the S/S 19th and 22nd Street Stations westbound SEPTA has posted information about the new
fare collection requirements going into effect:

With token or cash: Enter at cashier booth or purchase QT Card from machine.
(At 19th or 22nd S/S Stations: Cash or token not accepted at fareline. A QT Card is required.)

Legacy One Day Convenience Passes: Not Accepted at Transit Stations. I would understand if
there was no longer cashiers at stations - why they will no longer accept legacy CVPs for entry
is beyond me - even with the pass type no longer sold and in the process of being phased out.
One idea would have been to accept legacy CVPs until the end of 2018 at transit stations to
allow their discontinuance to be more gradual depending on how many were previously sold
and with paper transfers no longer offered CVPs are actually an even bigger bargain...

There is no mention about Legacy Independence Pass use - they will likely be accepted for use
without any problem - other then the new S/S farelines at 19th and 22nd Street westbound.

From the previous information SEPTA may well have backed down on forcing ALL cash and token
riders at transit stations to purchase single ride QT cards. With this change cash and token riders
would have had to use the limited amount of TVMs in each station alongside Key users that need
to purchase passes or add money to their travel wallets for entry. The result may have been long
lines to use TVMs at stations especially during busier travel periods.
http://www.septa.org/key/updates/fare-p ... anges.html
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:38 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:From the previous information SEPTA may well have backed down on forcing ALL cash and token riders at transit stations to purchase single ride QT cards. With this change cash and token riders would have had to use the limited amount of TVMs in each station alongside Key users that need to purchase passes or add money to their travel wallets for entry.

How much percentage of ridership is cash/token (single trip) fares? At NYCT, cash/single trip fares are a very small percentage (with the possible exception of seniors, who can pay the $2.75 cash fare at any staffed booth and receive a return fare receipt for round trip (superseded by a one-use return trip MetroCard).
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby MACTRAXX » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:15 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
MACTRAXX wrote:From the previous information SEPTA may well have backed down on forcing ALL cash and token riders at transit stations to purchase single ride QT cards. With this change cash and token riders would have had to use the limited amount of TVMs in each station alongside Key users that need to purchase passes or add money to their travel wallets for entry.

How much percentage of ridership is cash/token (single trip) fares? At NYCT, cash/single trip fares are a very small percentage (with the possible exception of seniors, who can pay the $2.75 cash fare at any staffed booth and receive a return fare receipt for round trip (superseded by a one-use return trip MetroCard).

R36: Keep in mind that the Key system is being implemented while the Metrocard in NYC is long
established. There has to be a significant enough percentage for SEPTA to keep the dual option
of cash and token riders either buying a QT card or paying fares to the cashier at the booth for
entry. The trouble with this change would have been to force all riders with cash or tokens to use
the same TVM machines as those that need to purchase fares to place on their Key cards. From
what I have seen on comparison there are far fewer TVMs at stations then what the average NYC
Transit station has. There are concerns from a low income rider advocate group about the Key-see:
http://www2.philly.com/philly/business/ ... 80928.html
Philadelphia Inquirer 9/28 - writer: Jason Laughlin
One fact about Philadelphia is that it has the highest percentage of low-income residents of any big
city in the US which is about 25 percent. This group of people is very dependent on SEPTA.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:34 pm

Bumping the thread with this from philly.com. It's not like some of us haven't been making the same points for months ....
http://www2.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/septa-key-failures-the-poor-are-hurt-digital-fare-card-20180928.html
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