Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby EuroStar » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:52 pm

It has been known for a while that the tunnel requires extensive work. To the best of my knowledge no contract has even been bid out for that work. The Andover station has also not been bid out, so there is no way that they will get anything by the end of 2020 even if they tried. If they tried hard, maybe 2022, but NJT has so many higher priority issues to address that there is no way they can dedicate meaningful resources to this.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby lensovet » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:19 am

btw what was the service plan for this station? hackettstown service is already pretty sparse, so i can't imagine they would divert some of those trains. is there enough time in the schedule to extend dover trains and turn them in time?
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby Dcell » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:38 am

lensovet wrote:btw what was the service plan for this station? hackettstown service is already pretty sparse, so i can't imagine they would divert some of those trains. is there enough time in the schedule to extend dover trains and turn them in time?

I thought NJT was going to build a small yard in Andover but not where the former yard was located but I am not 100% certain.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby jrzwalker86 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:12 pm

Hi D-Cell,
If you are unaware of Chuck Walsh's You-tube series on the Lackawanna Cutoff, here are a couple of links that may answer the previous two questions you had.
Roseville Tunnel, (whole segment) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ8AtEdDwVU
Andover Station, (during the first several minutes). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IsgaKMJWQs&t=156s
Each was made two years ago and last Summer respectively.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby EuroStar » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:25 am

Dcell wrote:I thought NJT was going to build a small yard in Andover but not where the former yard was located but I am not 100% certain.

Why would they build a yard in Andover? Maybe a tail track of one-two trains length, but a yard? The Morris Yard is just one station back and the wye was supposed to be restored.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby Dcell » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:05 am

Breech of contract lawsuit means another delay. Seems like work will never be completed.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby joeycannoli » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:10 am

what are you referring to?
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:28 pm

As I've learned from the other thread, there's no guarantees he knows what he's talking about. Hell, Pennsylvania got money to upgrade their side.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby JasW » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:09 am

Are we still at just over five miles? At this rate, the 25 miles from Port Morris to Stroudsburg will be completed/restored by 2065. I'm beginning to wonder if it might not have been a better idea/easier to extend Raritan Valley Line service on the old CNJ mainline from High Bridge to Phillipsburg.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:02 pm

JasW wrote:Are we still at just over five miles? At this rate, the 25 miles from Port Morris to Stroudsburg will be completed/restored by 2065. I'm beginning to wonder if it might not have been a better idea/easier to extend Raritan Valley Line service on the old CNJ mainline from High Bridge to Phillipsburg.


Well, you can't do it over 100% of the CNJ main, but yes.

That said, it is still the stretch to Andover. Johnsonburg, Greendell and Blairstown to Slateford will wait for another 40 years.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby JasW » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:24 am

Where have they pulled up tracks on the CNJ main? I took a fly by from Highbridge to P-burg via Google Maps satellite view, and all the crossings and bridges seem intact. Of course, there's probably natural deterioration, etc.

As far as the Cutoff goes, even if they only make it to Andover, I don't know how they can justify extra service that just goes to Andover after Lake Hopatcong rather than Hackettstown.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:52 pm

Yeah, I thought they tore out a piece of some trackage near Bloomsbury. Maybe I'm confusing lines.

That said, if they went to Blairstown, I could justify it, but Andover by itself isn't going to make as much money.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby Adirondack » Wed May 01, 2019 12:50 pm

Going west, the former CNJ was taken out starting at ~ (40.649925, -75.115792) and a connection was built over to the former LV. This saved a bridge when they built I78. Still further west at ~ (40.675525, -75.167561), the CNJ and LV converge again, and the track swung over to the CNJ ROW and the LV was taken out. The former CNJ is used through Philipsburg and across the Delaware river. To restore service, NS would likely require that all the shared ROW be made double track. The bridge over I78 looks like it can accommodate that.
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby Ken W2KB » Wed May 01, 2019 1:50 pm

JasW wrote:Where have they pulled up tracks on the CNJ main? I took a fly by from Highbridge to P-burg via Google Maps satellite view, and all the crossings and bridges seem intact. Of course, there's probably natural deterioration, etc.

As far as the Cutoff goes, even if they only make it to Andover, I don't know how they can justify extra service that just goes to Andover after Lake Hopatcong rather than Hackettstown.


I-78 severed the CNJ mainline, no bridge was built. The lower part of this Google view is the Lehigh Valley bridge, to the northeast about 1,000 feet distance can be seen the CNJ mainline covered with vegetation. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6568597,-75.1472346,982m/data=!3m1!1e3 The Route 519 (Third Ave) bridge, about the center of this view, was also removed. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6657672,-75.1600042,754a,35y,39.28t/data=!3m1!1e3 The actual right of way is still intact. A good interim solution would be to extend the CNJ to a park and ride at I-78 Exit 7 east of the missing bridges - the exit is adequate and there is land available there next to the CNJ line, the plowed field directly across the road from the Pilot truck stop has the CNJ along its southern edge. This is west of the Jugtown Mountain steep grade on I-78 so it avoids needing to drive that under slippery conditions and does not preclude further expansion to the west in the future. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6591439,-75.0741783,1096m/data=!3m1!1e3
~Ken :: Fairmont ex-UP/MP C436 MT-14M1 ::
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Postby JasW » Wed May 01, 2019 3:43 pm

Ah, yes, I see what I did -- where the LVRR and CNJ come right next to each other west of Bloomsbury, I picked up the LVRR line. Still, I see a connection from the CNJ main to the LVRR there. It's only 5 miles or so to P-burg from that point; couldn't that stretch be shared with Norfolk Southern? The LVRR goes right to the old CNJ station in P-burg. (I note this is probably all better suited for the CNJ forum)
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