20 car MU's?

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20 car MU's?

Postby Bensalem SEPTA rider » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:46 pm

When the need arises, should 20 car trains be an option for riderhsip capacity?
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Postby Nester » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:00 pm

I was told a long time ago that after 12 cars the P-Wire voltage is too low to reliably operate the train, so I would imagine for M1 and M3 cars, you won't see 20-car consists in revenue operation anytime soon.

Besides, there would need to be a lot of platform extensions to quickly accomodate 12 cars. As it stands today, there are only a couple of stations that can handle 14.

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Postby Lirr168 » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:24 pm

Without even considerig the technological limitations of running 20-car MU trains, I can tell you with some certainty that it is basically impossible. Most stations on the LIRR are made to accomodate 10 cars, 12 at the most. In addition, being that passengers are not technically supposed to pass between cars while the train is moving, I cannot see the RR running trains that would require passengers to walk forward or back through the train in order to exit.
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Postby Clemuel » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:26 pm

It has been done, by mistake several times without incident. What everyone above says is true. Too many limitations...

Clem
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Postby BMC » Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:27 pm

For all the above reasons plus from what I'm told the substations would not be able to handle more than a 12 car consist in one grid. I don't know the technical reasons for that, but it's happened to me with drill moves.
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Postby davelirrider » Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:38 pm

The substations have recently begun to be updated with increased resistance. The M7s were blowing them originally when more then 5 sets (10 cars) were mated. There has always been a problem with the M3's.. and there can not be more than 6 cars in a train.
I've seen M1/M3 sets of up to 16 cars during equiptment moves from Ronkonkoma to Jamaica on Friday nights.
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Postby NIMBYkiller » Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:19 pm

There is no reason for a 20 car train anyway. They should just make a bi-level EMU fleet.
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Postby Clemuel » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:20 pm

You can fit more people in a tightly arranged single level car with 3/2 seating than in a Bi-Level. The LIRR Bi-levels were purchased for more "look at us" than for practical reasons. The president, at the time, was bent on the "thinking outside of the box" and "new idea" mantra even if the new ideas sucked. He felt that, as president, he was knew more about anything than anyone else possible could.

The taxpayers and passengers will pay for his stupidity in many areas for many years.

Clem
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Postby One of One-Sixty » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:23 pm

Sorry for being OT,

Clem, is it just the bi-levels that have the evac ladders or does the M-7 have them too?
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Postby Long Island 7285 » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:25 pm

Bi level MU's are not impossible, but they would not fit through jamaica, NYP, babylon, or hicksville, just to name a few.
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Postby NIMBYkiller » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:41 pm

3X2 seating needs to be phased out.

And the bilevels can fit anywhere except wherever the C3s can't go.
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Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:17 pm

I agree, but you need to prove to MTA that 3 seaters are never or rarely used, document the use during rushhours and maybe you could prove MTA wrong on their 3 x 2 policy.
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Postby Long Island 7285 » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:33 pm

if you wanted to make 2 C3 cab cars into a MU pair, where yould you put the eletrical components that belond under the train, there is not much room?

but with the right engineering it might be possible.
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Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:59 pm

It has been done before check Dutch Railroads in a much smaller loading gauge than LIRR.
see :
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/nl/ele ... G_2461.jpg

and
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/nl/ele ... 3-7867.jpg

and the French railroads

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/ele ... 2056-1.jpg

and

Image
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Postby NIMBYkiller » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:39 pm

I love the BBDs in the first photo, but they are probably far too tall for east river tunnels. And yeah, they are much narrower from what I read on the BBD site.
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