CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby CPF363 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:51 pm

JayBee wrote:Andy Cummings, CP PR spokesman, confirmed that CP would retain Mohawk Yd. proper, but that the buyer would get ownership of the mainline to Mechanicville.

CP Rail has never owned the Glenville side of Mohawk Yard, which lies on the western side of the D&H main line. It is still owned by one of Guilford's real estate entities. There are a few sidings currently in use on the east side of the main line called "Riverside" where MOED/EDMO interchanges with the D&H but the large part of Mohawk Yard is currently unused for railroad operations. If the NS purchase of the southern end of the D&H does indeed happen, it will be interesting to see if NS works a separate arrangement to purchase the Glenville side of Mohawk Yard and sets up an interchange yard there with CP and PAS for manifest freight trains leaving Mechanicville Yard exclusively for auto and container traffic.
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby johnpbarlow » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:36 am

CPF363 wrote:
JayBee wrote:Andy Cummings, CP PR spokesman, confirmed that CP would retain Mohawk Yd. proper, but that the buyer would get ownership of the mainline to Mechanicville.

CP Rail has never owned the Glenville side of Mohawk Yard, which lies on the western side of the D&H main line. It is still owned by one of Guilford's real estate entities. There are a few sidings currently in use on the east side of the main line called "Riverside" where MOED/EDMO interchanges with the D&H but the large part of Mohawk Yard is currently unused for railroad operations. If the NS purchase of the southern end of the D&H does indeed happen, it will be interesting to see if NS works a separate arrangement to purchase the Glenville side of Mohawk Yard and sets up an interchange yard there with CP and PAS for manifest freight trains leaving Mechanicville Yard exclusively for auto and container traffic.


Assuming NS becomes new owner of D&H main line south of Mechanicville, I would guess that NS' replacement trains for CP's 252/253 would run directly between Binghamton and E Deerfield with pick-up/set-outs at Mohawk for CP to Montreal. Alternatively, perhaps the 930/931 trains would handle CP interchange to/from Saratoga. I would also guess that NS traffic to/from VTR at Whitehall would be routed via EDY/Bellows Falls (perhaps it already is?). Net: there might not need to be much of a yard at Mohawk if the NS deal happens.
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby JayBee » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:57 am

johnpbarlow wrote:
Assuming NS becomes new owner of D&H main line south of Mechanicville, I would guess that NS' replacement trains for CP's 252/253 would run directly between Binghamton and E Deerfield with pick-up/set-outs at Mohawk for CP to Montreal. Alternatively, perhaps the 930/931 trains would handle CP interchange to/from Saratoga. I would also guess that NS traffic to/from VTR at Whitehall would be routed via EDY/Bellows Falls (perhaps it already is?). Net: there might not need to be much of a yard at Mohawk if the NS deal happens.


What they would need is a spot for a crew change, and a spot to set out Bad-orders. Maybe two or three tracks for the crew change, just in case a train needs to be held if there is no crew ready. Probably CP will have just one Pool for Rouses Point to Albany or Mohawk Yd.
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby newpylong » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:18 am

Good find JayBee, I can concur that's what we are hearing as well. The days of MX for large interchange are numbered. There are two options that I know of being considered, CP (North Traffic)-PAS interchange remaining at Mohawk or EDSR/SRED will start up again. XO will remain intermodal and racks.

The NS-PAS will be a straight job from Bing to ED.
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby conrailsharedassets » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:59 pm

Hi All,

I have no doubt the current CP 252/253 will be at the very least cut back to Mohawk Yard (to handle the PAS interchange) or even more likely Saratoga (where PAS maybe forced to interchange with CP there). As for NS, the likely predecessor to the 252/253 would be an extension of NS train 11/12R which currently operate between Linwood, SC and Binghamton, NY via Harrisburg, PA and subsequently the CP Sunbury Sub as train symbols 458/459 while operating on CP. Just as newpylong stated, I have also heard these trains will be extended to East Deerfield, MA. This will easily shave 24 to maybe even as much as 48 hours off the current transit times which take significant delays being reclassified in Binghamton and waiting in Mohawk for interchange to PAS.

I would eventually look for another pair of Intermodals, but these coming out of the South. As far as I understand, JB Hunt and other shippers have been chomping on the bit for NS service North of Harrisburg into New York State and New England on the I-81 corridor. May even result in another pair of trains on PAS into Ayer if capacity allows.

As for the CP interchange, I can very well see 30/31T handling that business South of Saratoga. However, I have been told that most of CP's NEUS interchange to NS will be handled via Buffalo/Binghamton on 38/39T (254/255) as opposed to via the Montrel/Saratoga Gateway. So interchange may end up being pretty limited between CP and NS through Saratoga/Mohawk.

One other thing to watch is maybe NS and CN getting together (using CP trackage rights as a middle man) for Intermodal into Eastern Canada. Recent news breaking has stated that CSXT has turned a cold shoulder on CN in Eastern Canada with the construction of their new Intermodal terminal in South Central Quebec. CN has been a close partner to CSXT on the Intermodal front for quite some time, but considering CSXT's recent actions they may end up looking toward a new partner to move their own business to the NEUS and Southeast US.

The bottom line is, things are about to get EXCEPTIONALLY interesting in the next couple of years! Buckle up and hold on as we are in for one heck of a ride!

Jim Cerulli
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby CN9634 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:14 pm

To summarize the possible breakup of CN and CSX, simply look at this website: http://www.intermodalcanada.com/ (No sign of a .ca site)


As for NS on the D&H, running the 11R and 12R trains into Deerfield would certainly be possible. I see these trains each day and there is a hefty amount of Maine/New England traffic on board. If they had the train speeds, a Portland, ME to Linwood, NC train would be possible, but not probable to happen right now.

I would wonder if NS would try running oil trains over PAR again. CSX has access to Buckeye, as does CP, to move oil to Saint John, NB. The floodgates opened up again last week with 3 BNSF oil trains going over CN to Saint John. Pan Am has shed its eastern 58 miles from Waterworks east (With occasional run through service if needed or car storage at Old Town) in favor of a CMQ/NBSR routing. No doubt a BNSF-NS-PAR-CMQ-NBSR routing may work as the BNSF-CSX-PAR-NBSR routing was quite successful even given its operation challenges. From what I heard CSX got cold feet when PAR derailed more than a dozen tanks up in Mattawamkeag. The 85lb rail with poor tie and roadbed no doubt posed huge risk. I'm surprised CSX didn't run a geo train over this line before considering the service.

So in short, NS direct connection to PAS/PAR may lead to the return of oil trains. Also, NS direct connection to PAS may create a quasi NS-VRS-CMQ interchange gateway that I've heard some chatter about. Let's just say that Mr. Giles takeover of CMQ promised a 25MPH railroad and the work done this past summer and fall has done that not just to the east-west mainline, but also down into Vermont. Similarly VRS has both upgraded its tracks and raised clearances.... While I doubt oil trains will run up the Conn River, intermodal or other unit trains are certainly possibly bound for Saint John.

Sorry if some of you aren't up to speed on the far east railroads, but regionally the D&H transaction to NS will have a lot of ripples. From what I hear life is going to be quite different in a year or two up that way. I may have to switch over to the railroad side of intermodal operations in a few years if they work their way east.

This came out about 8 months or so ago that may be something of interest:
http://www.panamrailways.com/PDF/offtotheraces.pdf
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby newpylong » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:15 pm

CN as mentioned the Saratoga flyer was marketing fluff. As Quad/Graphics was again getting loaded paper from Maine they took this as an opportunity to market "priority Saratoga blocks". Good to see the business back but nothing earth shattering and no EDSR (yet). Not related to possible D&H sale either.
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby newpylong » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:12 pm

Docs filed.

NS gets up to Schenectady with trackage rights into Mohawk and north to Mechanicville. CP keeps Mohawk and has rights to serve GE.
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby rovetherr » Sat May 16, 2015 9:42 am

And here is the decision...
http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readingroom.nsf/UNID/D3508D2B6798EB9C85257E46006CEC4D/$file/44295.pdf

Fairly straight forward transaction, NY Docks for employee protection, one condition imposed for a power plant that is predicated on the plant actually building a spur and seeking competitive access. The decision also approves the two requests for modification of trackage rights relating to NS's access to Mohawk and Saratoga yards. Effective June 14, 2015.
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby Maybrook fan » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:48 pm

I admit I am way out dated on keeping up with changes in all these agreement's, so I apologize to all if my question turns out to be frivolous. When Conrail was split D&H obtained traffic rights down the east side of the Hudson River into New York City. Are these rights still active and would they go to NS ???
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Re: CP has a agreement to sell the D&H

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:55 pm

Maybrook fan wrote:I admit I am way out dated on keeping up with changes in all these agreement's, so I apologize to all if my question turns out to be frivolous. When Conrail was split D&H obtained traffic rights down the east side of the Hudson River into New York City. Are these rights still active and would they go to NS ???


No. CP retains those.
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