Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby Greg Moore » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:00 pm

I had not heard that, but I think it's a pretty decent idea.
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby Ocala Mike » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:32 pm

I'm going up to Saratoga for a week by train from Florida the second week of August. I decided to book the trip to Albany instead of trying for tix on the Adirondack or Ethan Allen. Works out fine, as it's easy to rent a car in Albany for the last 30 miles, and I'd like to tool around with a rental car around Saratoga that week anyway.
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby Dick H » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:06 pm

Saratoga same day visitors today, that called Julie or otherwise checked the status on
the Southbound Adirondack probably got to stay for an extra race today, as #68 was
one hour, 13 minutes late at SAR, due to being held nearly an extra hour for customs
at Rouses Point...

Saturday 7/23 Northbound Adirondack NYP/SAR is sold out
Sunday 7/24 Southbound Adirondack SAR/NYP is sold out.
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby Dick H » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:27 pm

#68 left Rouses Point over 5 hours late (Sat 8/6)
Shows departing Plattsburg 5 hours, 53 minutes late,
but no update since. Nothing on Amtrak ,com.
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby Dick H » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:23 am

Northbound Adirondack #69 is sold out NYP/SAR Wed, Thurs, Fri, 8/10-11-12.
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby jp1822 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:29 am

This is now a CHRONIC problem for this train. It gets TOTALLY booked up between Saratoga Springs and New York Penn. Meaning it does not run at capacity NORTH of Saratoga Springs and ruins the "once a day" crowd or people trying to get to upstate NY (Plattsburgh - and then even over to Vermont) or more importantly MONTREAL!!!!

Be it the horse races or whatever, Amtrak needs to figure out a way to deal with this issue. In the past when someone cared about the train, cars were added/subtracted at Saratoga Springs OR a shuttle train was run between Saratoga Springs and Albany OR a totally separate train (a special) was run from Saratoga Springs to New York Penn.

One time I was aboard this train and literally, after we made the Saratoga Springs stop (EVERY SEAT TAKEN AND CONDUCTORS TOLD US TRAIN SOLD OUT), there were 11 people left on the train headed to largely upstate NY or Montreal (I think a total of 4 people were heading to Montreal). The train had been booked up by everyone getting to Saratoga Springs.

New York State pays for the Adirondack and they should be on this - same for the Ethan Allen Express and its get-away on Friday early evening and Sunday early evening from New York Penn and Rutland respectively.
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby Dick H » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:07 am

I agree about the chronic problem. #68 and the southbound EA are often sold
out SAR/NYP depending on the day and schedule during the racing season. It
was mentioned somewhere that maybe the S&NC could operate a train between
SAR and ALB. Especially with CP having to be involved, that probably would take
years to make it happen, if ever. Perhaps Amtrak has proposed some remedy
during racing season, but NY state doesn't want to shell out any additional $$$.
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:08 pm

Since CP(nee D&H) is the host RR,they are not allowing S&NC(IP) to run to the Amtrak station at ALB, and could
object to any more Amtrak service even if the Amtrak consist was to lay up in the S&NC yard at Saratoga Springs.
The state has 0 excess $$$ on hand to fund a S&NC(IP) run to ALB or a dedicated Amtrak train NYP-SAR and return.
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby electricron » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:32 pm

jp1822 wrote:This is now a CHRONIC problem for this train. It gets TOTALLY booked up between Saratoga Springs and New York Penn. Meaning it does not run at capacity NORTH of Saratoga Springs and ruins the "once a day" crowd or people trying to get to upstate NY (Plattsburgh - and then even over to Vermont) or more importantly MONTREAL!!!!

Be it the horse races or whatever, Amtrak needs to figure out a way to deal with this issue. In the past when someone cared about the train, cars were added/subtracted at Saratoga Springs OR a shuttle train was run between Saratoga Springs and Albany OR a totally separate train (a special) was run from Saratoga Springs to New York Penn.


It's not a chronic problem to have sold out trains, instead I suggest it's great to have the train selling out. It's easy to suggest adding a car to the train will allow selling more seats and collecting more fares, but I ask how many more seats will it sell, and whether the increased operating costs for the extra car will be paid for with extra fares?
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:56 pm

This is a "seasonal" problem for the short term, untill the short season at Raceway ends,and tacking on the extra car
on # 68/69 and # 290/291 on a fleet that's already streached real thin is hard to do for now,as most of the consists are
at summer length right now.
When the Major Holidays roll around,there're some spare cars due to the consists shrinking to fall/winter lengths
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby jp1822 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:46 am

I can attest to the fact that it is a year-round problem for the Ethan Allen on Friday and Sundays. It's poor utilization of equipment. People escape the City for the weekend for their "weekend houses" in the Catskills using the Ethan Allen Express. Then from Albany to Rutland, where VERMONT has to subsidize the train, it runs empty, because the patronage from NYP that wanted to go to Rutland was "knocked out" due to the "south of Albany passengers. It has a FIX, but Amtrak and the State of New York won't address it. It's gone on for years and I've done it and experienced myself!
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby jp1822 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:53 am

electricron wrote:It's not a chronic problem to have sold out trains, instead I suggest it's great to have the train selling out. It's easy to suggest adding a car to the train will allow selling more seats and collecting more fares, but I ask how many more seats will it sell, and whether the increased operating costs for the extra car will be paid for with extra fares?


NO it is not a chronic problem to have sold out trains. But to have sold out trains for only half the train's journey - that's a problem. So then it is good utilization to run practically an empty train from Saratoga to Montreal? Sometimes if you don't make that booking MONTHS in advance of the races, you are not going to Montreal. Amtrak has revenue capacity managers that should watch these "passenger loads" and suggest the addition/subtraction of a coach at Saratoga Springs like they used to in the past. The train pulls into Saratoga Springs and it feels like the WHOLE train has just turned over. through traffic heading on north past Saratoga Springs on certain days of the races becomes rare. And for a once a day train north of Saratoga Springs/Whitehall, it's just not good practice. This has gone on for years and Amtrak has ignored it. It didn't though for a few seasons when they literally add/subtracted Amfleets at Saratoga OR ran a special train from Saratoga Springs to Albany and New York JUST for the races and it didn't mess up the Adirondack's patronage.

Do you think the Adirondack would run empty if it wasn't for Saratoga Springs? Not any more!!!
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:42 am

The fleet is streached real thin,every car that doesn't need shop repairs is on the move to begin with.
The "rail birds" are smart enough to book in advance before the season at Saratoga, just before train time the last seats are sold off
at a much higher price.
You seem to forget travel to Canada requires a passport after 9/11,so some passengers have to cancel if they are without a passport/passport card.

It would have been nice to retain the Heritage Coach cars as a "surge" fleet,but lack of holding tanks for the bathroom's waste water and the
cost to retrofit was not "cost effective" with the limited $$$$ that Amtrak has to work with.

Both # 68/69 and # 290/291 are funded thru the state,it would help to put a "bug" in the ears of the critters residing in the state capitol
to grant more funding to have View II coaches built at CAF!!
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby AgentSkelly » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:59 am

Passport was required to re-enter the US in 2008 thru Canada or Mexico to be exact.

And actually, my understanding the southbound Adirondack is pretty full from Montreal usually.
New Westminster to Amtrak 516, whats up with the extra 4 axles, over?
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Re: Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby east point » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:53 pm

It is not a quick fix but once new coaches ( V-2, V-3, Bright Lline, or whatever ) are built the Amfleet-1s & -2s can become part of a surge fleet. That is assuming that demand does not approach supply of serviceable Amfleets. It would be nice if all surge Amfleet cars were in demand for most of the year except for the few months of doldrums.
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