Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

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Amtrak's ADIRONDACK

Postby RMadisonWI » Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:23 pm

According to an article in the Schenectady Gazette posted to another list online (unfortunately, based on my attempts to visit the Gazette's website, it appears that one must be a subscriber to the newspaper to access their articles online), Amtrak wants the New York State DOT to reimburse them $4.4 million for operating the Adirondack. If an agreement is not reached by June 30, Amtrak "will begin the process to discontinue the train." I'm guessing this means they'll file the 180-day train-off notice.

I believe the forum's rules state that we can't post full articles online, but instead must provide a brief summary and a link. Unfortunately, as I said, I can't provide a link to the article. So, I will just post a couple of quotes from the article (hopefully, that is allowed).

Amtrak Threatens End of Montreal Train Route
Schenectady Gazette
June 18, 2004

By Eric Anderson

The Adirondack passenger train to Montreal could shut down before the end of the year if New York state doesn’t pay the $4.4 million Amtrak says its is owed in back payments.

...

“The state of New York owes Amtrak $4.4 million in back payments for the operation of the Adirondack,” Black added. “Amtrak does not have a signed contract to operate the train. We’ve continued to operate it without payments since early 2003,” Black said.

...

“We’ve given the state everything they’ve asked for in terms of financial information,” Black said. “If they wish for more information, we’ll give it to them.”

“But, we need to be paid,” he added. “If we don’t receive full payment by June 30, Amtrak will begin the process to discontinue the train.”


If I can find a working link to this (or a similar) article, I'll post it.
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This would be a terrible loss.....

Postby jp1822 » Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:43 pm

Boy, I hope this train is not discontinued and something gets worked out - and fast. Amtrak and NY State seem to have a rough relationship recently.
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Postby hsr_fan » Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:44 pm

It wouldn't be as big a loss if the Montrealer still ran, but having no train service between New York and Montreal would be a shame. I've actually thought about taking the Adirondack to Montreal, but that would obviously be more than a day trip, and would require some planning and vacation time. I have ridden #68 between Albany and NYP a couple of times, and each time the train seemed very full.
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Postby Rhinecliff » Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:20 am

I'd be surprised to see the Adirondak terminated.

With the Montrealer gone, ridership is almost universally heavy. New York just completely rebuilt the Saratoga Station.

I think the train is safe. This is just political posturing. Amtrak and New York have a weird relationship, considering that New York is everything to Amtrak, and Amtrak is everything to New York.
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Postby RMadisonWI » Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:13 am

According to http://www.pressrepublican.com/Archive/2004/07_2004/070120043.htm, New York has agreed to pay Amtrak the money requested to continue running the train.
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Postby queenlnr8 » Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:26 pm

YAY! The Adirondak stays!

... now if they could paint up some new baggage cars with the neat 'scene' on them for the train...
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Postby Otto Vondrak » Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:51 pm

Decorated baggage cars that run largely empty are not part of Gunn's profitability plans...

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Postby 7 Train » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:12 pm

What about the Vermonter Montreal connection? It was eliminated too, leaving Amtrak with only one route to Montreal. (The Vermonter was the Montrealer's replacement, in 1995).
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Postby george matthews » Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:27 pm

7 Train wrote:What about the Vermonter Montreal connection? It was eliminated too, leaving Amtrak with only one route to Montreal. (The Vermonter was the Montrealer's replacement, in 1995).


Almost exactly 4 years ago I took this train, beginning with the bus connection from Montreal. It was very early in the morning and the sight of the train in rural St Albans was very welcome. My impression was that there is very little to be found at St Albans and the train was not at all full until much further south.

I notice from the current system timetable book that it would not now be possible to travel from Montreal to connect with this train, which is a pity.

I was going to Hartford Conn.

It seems a great pity that the train no longer crosses the border.

A few years earlier I took the Adirondack from New York to Montreal. That should be labelled as one of the Great Rail Journeys od the world.
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Postby Raakone » Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:02 am

Funny, George, I thought it already was!
I am Le Ra'akone. Time for a Rail-volution.
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Postby trainhq » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:57 pm

The Adirondack won't end; New York State came up with the $$$. See
National Corridors initiative newsletter. I've ridden it; it's a pretty ride,
but a very slow one. It'd be nice if N.Y. could come up with some $$ to
fix it up a bit, but seeing how things are going downstate, that won't happen. It'll just keep chugging along at it's current slow speed.
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Postby hsr_fan » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:32 am

trainhq wrote:I've ridden it; it's a pretty ride,
but a very slow one. It'd be nice if N.Y. could come up with some $$ to
fix it up a bit, but seeing how things are going downstate, that won't happen. It'll just keep chugging along at it's current slow speed.


Here's a question: Is Amtrak legally required to stay below 80 mph once it crosses into Canada? (Canada allows speeds up to 100 mph without cab signals.) If not, I say run at 100 mph between Montreal and the New York border! :wink:
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Adirondack Speeds

Postby Noel Weaver » Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:47 am

Canadian Pacific recently reduced the top passenger train speed on the
former D. & H. from 70 MPH to 60 MPH.
There are about 55 miles of 70 MPH and about 5 miles of 65 MPH. In my
opinion it will not make a big difference in the running time. It might
prevent them from making up a little bit of the time southbund that they
likely lose at the border dealing with customs southbound. Even on the
70 MPH stretches, it is quite likely that there were areas where they were
still not able to do 70 MPH for one reason or another.
In Canada, Amtrak is under the rules of the Canadian National and their
top speed on the Rouses Point Subdivision is presently 50 MPH for
passenger trains. There are additional areas where they have to go
less than 50 MPH. I do not think it is likely that that situation will change
anytime soon.
The main reason the State of New York pays for this train is the fact that
it is a major tourist draw, one of the most scenic trains in the entire
country and serves some fairly remote areas with no alternate means of
public transportation.
So far as the north east is concerned, this is probably the most
successful state supported train of all of them.
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Re: Adirondack Speeds

Postby hsr_fan » Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:52 am

Noel Weaver wrote:Canadian Pacific recently reduced the top passenger train speed on the
former D. & H. from 70 MPH to 60 MPH.


Great, that's what I call progress!

In Canada, Amtrak is under the rules of the Canadian National and their
top speed on the Rouses Point Subdivision is presently 50 MPH for
passenger trains. There are additional areas where they have to go
less than 50 MPH. I do not think it is likely that that situation will change
anytime soon.


Yeah, I figured it was probably not high speed track. But it's still an interesting question - is Amtrak bound by the 79 mph law once it crosses the border?
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Canada

Postby Noel Weaver » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:26 am

There is no place in Canada that I am aware of where cab signals/speed
control is in use. Via trains are not equipped with cab signals or speed
control.
Top speed that I am aware of for passenger trains on the CN is 100 MPH.
There are a few places where no automatic signals are in use and yet
passenger trains are allowed 75 MPH.
Canadian National has superb track, maybe the best of any freight railroad and that helps too.
The line down to Rouses Point is not considered a main line although there
is a through freight in each direction to the NEC via Cantic. Nothing much
between Cantic and Rouses Point.
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