Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, gprimr1, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:40 pm

R&DB wrote:No, Nashville belongs on the Floridian, not on a line through Roanoke.

Mr. R&DB, Nashville lost much less sleep over The Floridian than it's passengers ever did considering its 0-dark-30 schedule.

The Music City Star commuter train hasn't exactly been an outcry for more passenger trains - what with some 250K riders a year? Maybe it could do better if it ran where the people are, i.e. along I-65, 24 and 40, but it don't; and if it did, would interfere with Yäger's "Precision Railroading".

No Tennessee state agency is about to fund a passenger train; why divert $$$ from additional 24, 40, & 65 lanes so Ford Super Dutys can barrel along at 90?

I'm "down there" every year (friends; emigrees from Atlanta). It is a "car centric" culture.
Gilbert B Norman
 
Posts: 12830
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:52 am
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Aurora Sub; MP 18.71)

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby east point » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:33 pm

gokeefe wrote:
Anthony wrote:They once did a study of putting the missing section back, but the study concluded that it would be cost-prohibitive to do so.


Most studies will if the assumption is "passenger only" operations. If there's dual use for freight its a completely different proposition.


Bristol to the speedway Freight ? Not enough potential customers. 1st 2 miles from state line now covered by a relocated US-11E aka Volunteer parkway. Then a school on ROW + private college on ROW + various other structures. Also whole ROW is within city limits of Bristol, Tn to just north of the speedway . Ain't gonna happen !.
east point
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:50 pm

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby mtuandrew » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:31 pm

I think they are talking about the Tennessee Central, not the Southern branch to the Speedway.
User avatar
mtuandrew
 
Posts: 4009
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am
Location: the Manassas Gap Independent Line

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby gokeefe » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:52 pm

I had no idea there was even a commuter rail operation of any kind whatsoever in Nashville, let alone Tennessee. Carrying 250,000 passengers on a 20 mile corridor is pretty impressive. It certainly begs the question of whether or not service could or would ever be extended from Virginia, into Tennessee.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 9691
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby OrangeGrove » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:53 pm

mtuandrew wrote:I think they are talking about the Tennessee Central, not the Southern branch to the Speedway.


Most of the abandoned portion of the former Tennessee Central main, from Monterey to Crab Orchard, is relatively free of major right-of-way encroachment. There are exceptions (convenience store parking lot, mobile homes, etc.) but most of the more serious issues are within the city of Crossville itself, with a major bakery and library, and a number of businesses which have incorporated the former ROW into their lots and facilities. Though I'd expect a few howls of protest, by shuffling a few roads, parking and storage lots, and minor structures around, sufficient ROW should still remain for a single-track line through town (formerly three-tracks behind Flowers Bakery).

The real issue is cost. The previously mentioned study about reinstating the tracks had a price tag north of $400 million, and that was probably ten to fifteen years ago. There was a cheaper option, but I don't immediately recall the precise numbers (like many such studies, the estimates seem inflated).
OrangeGrove
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:11 pm

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby Woody » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:13 pm

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:
Woody wrote: ... why just Roanoke and Bristol? This route should be extended to ... Knoxville, Chattanooga, Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile.

... it will be done step by step over some years, so be very patient.

How many years is 'some'? ... I'm in my 40s and I highly doubt I'll see it ... I have hardly seen much progress in my lifetime.

... the chances of any national funded services along this route are slim and I hope other 750+ mile routes would have priority (Gulf Coast, Crescent Star, service through Vegas, and oh yeah that other one). So for federally funding of the route you suggest, I'm not saying it's not a useful route but back of the line. ...

I'm 73 and the most progress I've seen for Amtrak has been the past eight years or so. OK, the Acelas to Boston was big progress. But there hasn't been much else.

In recent years we got the Downeaster extended to Brunswick, a Regional pushed down to Lynchburg and another to Norfolk. Now we are about to enjoy an extension to Roanoke, with a new train Moline (Quad Cities)-CHI maybe next year.

When we imagine a world when money is appropriated to buy more rolling stock and upgrade and restore additional routes, the old rules of politics will still apply: To pass Congress, there has to be 50% + 1 votes, or a little something for everyone needed to get that majority.

So we won't see one or two new routes, or a mere 30 or 40 more coaches ordered. We'll need enuff to spread across a good number of states and House districts.

In other words, the most politically likely way to get the daily Cardinal and this LD Bristol-Chattanooga Choo Choo and see your Broadway Ltd restored along with a 3-Cs route Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati is when they are part of a large expansion package. Of course we will have the Gulf Coast train New Orleans-Orlando and the Crescent branching off to Dallas-Ft Worth. We'll throw in the daily Sunset Ltd and the North Coast Sacajawea (LOL). And a dozen corridors like Baton Rouge-New Orleans, Fargo-St Paul-Milwaukee-CHI, and Cincinnati-Indy-CHI.

I won't live to see such a growth plan during this Congress, or this Administration, or maybe this Republic. :( But we won't see a revived Broadway Ltd as a solo act either.
Woody
 
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby mtuandrew » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:00 pm

A large public-private infrastructure package like ARRA/TIGER could pass Congress again, I suppose, with the newfound goodwill between 1600 Penn and part of the Capitol. That would be a good way to solve the PTC dilemma: "we pay you $X billion for a package of new LD trains (one-time fee plus trackage fees), you invest $Y billion in State of Good Repair including adherence to PTC." Spread it around enough and you could even get Amtrak service to the last two of the lower 48 (I suggest CHI-MSP-Aberdeen and Cheyenne-Denver.)

If you can't give everyone everything, give everyone something.
User avatar
mtuandrew
 
Posts: 4009
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am
Location: the Manassas Gap Independent Line

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby Arlington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:42 am

Virginia is going to see a much bigger payback (in votes, trains, and mobility) investing at the "VRE end" (Manassas-ALX/WAS and Fredericksburg-ALX/WAS)

Investing in tracks southwest of the New River Valley (VaTech) serves, at best, 1 or 2 round trips per day.
Investing in tracks between ALX and WAS serves something like 30 trains a day

If you wanted to speed travel from Bristol to DC by a half an hour, you'd spend an absolute fortune per passenger if you did it on the dangling Bristol end, particularly when Thruway Bus on 81 is the dominant option on about 330 to 350 days per year.

But invest in the Long Bridge, and you've saved 15mins x 30 trains = 7.5 hours of delay per day (and probably 100x as many passenger-hours of delay per day, given fuller trains)
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
Arlington
 
Posts: 3200
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:51 am
Location: Medford MA (was Arlington MA and Arlington VA)

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby mtuandrew » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:05 pm

As the young lady once said,
Image

A new Long Bridge is vastly overdue and will serve many millions of passengers, as well as CSX freight between the RF&P and Metropolitan Subdivisions. That said, it’s worth looking at how much it would cost to upgrade the NS Pulaski District one FRA track class (III to IV?) in order to future-proof both it and I-81 for freight use - passenger trains can be the stated reason if necessary, but I think there is reason to consider a state/Federal subsidy even for one Amtrak a day.
User avatar
mtuandrew
 
Posts: 4009
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am
Location: the Manassas Gap Independent Line

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby Philly Amtrak Fan » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:22 pm

mtuandrew wrote:As the young lady once said,
Image



As I've said many times... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Philly Amtrak Fan
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:22 am
Location: Philly Area

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby OrangeGrove » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:53 am

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:
mtuandrew wrote:As the young lady once said


As I've said many times... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


At a very basic level, even the almighty dollar is not really the core of the problem. The money exists; Both the federal and state governments of these United States have the financial resources to fund passenger rail. The costs - particularly infrastructure - are high, but not exorbitant. As a nation we can't do everything (especially not all at once), but we can do pretty much anything which is a sufficient priority.

What is sorely lacking is the political will, among the state legislatures and Congress, to properly and adequately fund passenger rail (greater support exists at the grass-roots level). The problem is not money - it's politics.
OrangeGrove
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:11 pm

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby Bob Roberts » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:52 am

OrangeGrove wrote:
Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:
mtuandrew wrote:As the young lady once said


As I've said many times... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


At a very basic level, even the almighty dollar is not really the core of the problem. The money exists; Both the federal and state governments of these United States have the financial resources to fund passenger rail. The costs - particularly infrastructure - are high, but not exorbitant. As a nation we can't do everything (especially not all at once), but we can do pretty much anything which is a sufficient priority.

What is sorely lacking is the political will, among the state legislatures and Congress, to properly and adequately fund passenger rail (greater support exists at the grass-roots level). The problem is not money - it's politics.


Agreed. We were (as of 2016) the eighth most affluent nation on earth (as measured by GDP per capita). We have plenty of money, we (as a nation) just struggle to decide what is worth paying for.
Bob Roberts
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 4:26 pm

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby electricron » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:13 am

Bob Roberts wrote:Agreed. We were (as of 2016) the eighth most affluent nation on earth (as measured by GDP per capita). We have plenty of money, we (as a nation) just struggle to decide what is worth paying for.

I disagree! The political argument is not so much deciding on what to pay for but how we pay for it. It’s amazing how our spending priorities change when the money paying for something comes out of our own pockets instead of someone else’s.
Should we pay for it collectively or individually? There will always be arguments on spending priorities because everyone has their own opinions.
electricron
 
Posts: 3817
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby Arlington » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:09 pm

When Virginia gets its first $6B for HSR, it goes $1B to Long Bridge and $5b for DC to Richmond Track 3/4. The next $6B after that likely goes $5B Richmond to Raleigh, and $1B Richmond Norfok (to 90mph)

Along the way, Virginia State politicians will likley ensure that CVS/LYH/ROA/NRV gets "its billion" just like the Tidewater will. Call it $100m for NRV, $200m in payoffs to NS & CSX for a 2nd and 3rd round trip, and probably $700m to throw to VRE for service to Haymarket and higher speeds along the line (or the Warrention-Front Royal cutoff)

At the Federal Level, even a maximal National Network build-out is going to spend its first $X00B on corridors that (1) already have service (2) already have been designated for HSR (3) already have EIRs on file. That's NOT going to include anything south of Charlottesville, sorry.

Image
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
Arlington
 
Posts: 3200
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:51 am
Location: Medford MA (was Arlington MA and Arlington VA)

Re: Lynchburg VA NE Regional (ext. to Roanoke and Bristol)

Postby Bob Roberts » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:09 pm

^ some awfully big cartography errors in that map. Tidewater service has been moved south into NC, South Carolina has gained an HSR corridor that is "in development," Atlanta is omitted entirely, and Raleigh to Charlotte is filed in the 'distant future' category?
Last edited by Bob Roberts on Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Bob Roberts
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 4:26 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests