Amtrak BG shops full report, WITH Viewliner Diner 8400 rpt

[electricron]

I remember speaking to a marketing manager of VIA Rail who was on a train with me on the Canadian and she mentioned VIA was really in need of additional stainless steel diners!

Maybe they will be in luck if Amtrak ever gets any more Viewliner based diners. Amtrak could sell the old Heritage diners to Via. Alas, who knows if and when those 25 Viewliner diners will arrive....

[lirr415]

I remember speaking to a marketing manager of VIA Rail who was on a train with me on the Canadian and she mentioned VIA was really in need of additional stainless steel diners!

Maybe they will be in luck if Amtrak ever gets any more Viewliner based diners. Amtrak could sell the old Heritage diners to Via. Alas, who knows if and when those 25 Viewliner diners will arrive....

Well VIA will be in big trouble soon. 60+ year old cars are going to fall apart really soon(just about everything in their fleet is junk, etcept for the locomotives), and lack of parts, its just a matter of time....That is why Plus aren't all of VIA's dining cars ex CP or CN (whichever)? Wouldn't heavily modified US based diners not be on their mind? Amtrak is just trying to get some cars that can use the same parts, pieces, etc. with the other cars, since the Heritage cars cannot. VIA has a fleet of cars that can be swapped from place to place, but again how much longer can they keep modifying them for? Thats my problem with VIA, their good now, gone tommorow...

[Gilbert B Norman]

Peter, The ex-Canadian National carbon steel (smooth side) cars, such as Sleeper "Endeavor" (gotta say, this WASP fellow sure loves those names of CN's "E---" cars) have all been retired. VIA's LD fleet is comprised solely of ex-CP Budd equipemnt.

While VIA reportedly has a maintenance regimen for their equipment (can't comment first hand; haven't been near VIA since 1980) that makes Amtrak look "third world' and they also reportedly offer an on-board service product second only to that once found on the various "RIP" Luxotrains, the wolf is knocking at the door. VIA will simply have to find funding to acquire new LD equipment or their already skeletal tri-weekly LD system will simply have no alternative other than to hang up the Adios drumhead.

[lirr415]

Peter, The ex-Canadian National carbon steel (smooth side) cars, such as Sleeper "Endeavor" (gotta say, this WASP fellow sure loves those names of CN's "E---" cars) have all been retired. VIA's LD fleet is comprised solely of ex-CP Budd equipemnt.

While VIA reportedly has a maintenance regimen for their equipment (can't comment first hand; haven't been near VIA since 1980) that makes Amtrak look "third world' and they also reportedly offer an on-board service product second only to that once found on the various "RIP" Luxotrains, the wolf is knocking at the door. VIA will simply have to find funding to acquire new LD equipment or their already skeletal tri-weekly LD system will simply have no alternative other than to hang up the Adios drumhead.

Thats what I'm saying. Once the equipment becomes so old and parts are so scarce, VIA might be in the dumps (especially since they don't make a ton of money, so what I see in their future is an Amtrak-like standardization of equipment, but hey maybe VIA thinks different that the US). So overall VIA's long distance future looks a little bleak.

[electricron]

Via's long distance ex-CP stainless steel cars appear to be in much better shape than much of Amtrak's Amfleet cars. Appearance makes the first impression.

Just look at these photos of equipment in service, vs freshly out of overhaul.
Via "Canadian"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV7bxm5GEsw

Amtrak "Lake Shore Limited"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoMEy7MzNdE

Via's "Canadian" equipment, as old as Amtrak's "Heritage" cars, looks as good as Amtrak's much newer Viewliner equipment....

Most of VIA's old Budd cars have been completely "rebuilt" at least once, and another 25 years life expentancy is expected after their second, which VIA has started funding. Note, I wrote "rebuilt", not "refurbished".

Here's a roster of VIA's Budd equipment:
43 Coach cars
69 Sleeper cars (29 Chateau & 40 Manor)
14 Park cars (Sleeper-Lounge-Observation)
13 Dining cars
16 Skyline Dome cars
19 Baggage cars
Total: 174 active Budd cars
1 Observation club car (Inactive and stored in Montreal from BC Rail)

Believe it or not, there's more sleeper cars than coach cars.

[lirr415]

Via's long distance ex-CP stainless steel cars appear to be in much better shape than much of Amtrak's Amfleet cars. Appearance makes the first impression.

Just look at these photos of equipment in service, vs freshly out of overhaul.
Via "Canadian"
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV7bxm5GEsw[/youtube]

Amtrak "Lake Shore Limited"
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoMEy7MzNdE[/youtube]

Via's "Canadian" equipment, as old as Amtrak's "Heritage" cars, looks as good as Amtrak's much newer Viewliner equipment....

Most of VIA's old Budd cars have been completely "rebuilt" at least once, and another 25 years life expentancy is expected after their second, which VIA has started funding. Note, I wrote "rebuilt", not "refurbished".

For now, but they can't keep rebuilding them for ever, sooner or later they won't be able to run with the miles they have already put on them. You can't judge a book by its cover.

[electricron]

For now, but they can't keep rebuilding them for ever, sooner or later they won't be able to run with the miles they have already put on them. You can't judge a book by its cover.

I'll agree with you that they can't run them forever, but they certainly can for another 25 years.

[mtuandrew]

For now, but they can't keep rebuilding them for ever, sooner or later they won't be able to run with the miles they have already put on them. You can't judge a book by its cover.

I'll agree with you that they can't run them forever, but they certainly can for another 25 years.

Well, they could run them indefinitely (as long as they meet Transport Canada's regulations). Eventually though, they become Irishmen's Hammers where everything has been replaced, from the trucks to the roof. VIA Rail is willing to continue along such a path, and it seems that it is easier for them to find maintenance dollars than replacement dollars. Just the opposite here - we're just lucky that the Amfleets have been so durable.

[lirr415]

I don't think they can last twenty-five more long, cold Canadian winters. I mean they are well maintained, but their 55+ years old, 25 more years just seems illogical.

[Matt Johnson]

25 more years doesn't seem illogical to me without any supporting evidence showing that it isn't viable. What is the realistic structural life of the stainless steel carbody frame? I'm not a metallurgist or a structural engineer, so I don't know. Could it not be that with proper maintenance, the carbodies could serve for another 25 years or more? It wouldn't surprise me.

[Jishnu]

Considering that VIA's equipment utilization is a fraction of Amtrak's it is to be expected that equipment will last longer with less frequent overhauls. Afterall most of the winter a significant portion of the Budd fleet just pretty much sits around doing nothing. OK, now I will duck.

[David Benton]

stainless welds will eventually crack , they are quite brittle comparitively . stainless doesnt expand and contract easily with heat / cold . so i would imagine these bosdies have had a fair bit of work done on them .

[electricron]

From http://www.viarail.ca/en/pressreleases/view/1397
The 174 cars in VIA’s stainless steel fleet were primarily built for Canadian Pacific (CP) in 1954-1955 by the Budd Company of Philadelphia, the world’s leading manufacturer of stainless steel rolling stock. These elegant and robust cars were used to create CP’s Canadian, the last all-new train of the Art Moderne-influenced Streamlined Era. VIA bought this distinctive and durable rolling stock when it took over the operation of the former CP services in 1978.
Between 1990 and 1993, VIA completely rebuilt the CP cars, as well as some additional Budd equipment acquired from the U.S. The cars were stripped to their shells and fully remanufactured for greater efficiency and passenger comfort at a fraction of the cost of new and unproven equipment. New interiors and a head end power (HEP) system were installed to eliminate the obsolete steam and battery-generator systems that previously provided lighting, heating and air conditioning.
This $200 million project not only renewed the cars for another 15-20 years of productive service on the Canadian and other long-haul and remote trains, but reduced operating costs by more than $20 million annually. A subsequent HEP 2 program applied the same modernization techniques and systems to 33 Budd stainless steel cars for use in the Quebec-Windsor Corridor.
As far back as the 1950s, Budd proudly proclaimed that not one piece of its rolling stock had ever been retired because it had worn out. More than half-a-century later, VIA’s HEP 1 and 2 fleets reinforce that accurate claim.

VIA did it before, surely they can do it again. By the way, 2010-2013 would be 20 years since 1990-1993. Looks like VIA is going to get more than 20 years service since the last rebuilds.

[jp1822]

From http://www.viarail.ca/en/pressreleases/view/1397
The 174 cars in VIA’s stainless steel fleet were primarily built for Canadian Pacific (CP) in 1954-1955 by the Budd Company of Philadelphia, the world’s leading manufacturer of stainless steel rolling stock. These elegant and robust cars were used to create CP’s Canadian, the last all-new train of the Art Moderne-influenced Streamlined Era. VIA bought this distinctive and durable rolling stock when it took over the operation of the former CP services in 1978.
Between 1990 and 1993, VIA completely rebuilt the CP cars, as well as some additional Budd equipment acquired from the U.S. The cars were stripped to their shells and fully remanufactured for greater efficiency and passenger comfort at a fraction of the cost of new and unproven equipment. New interiors and a head end power (HEP) system were installed to eliminate the obsolete steam and battery-generator systems that previously provided lighting, heating and air conditioning.
This $200 million project not only renewed the cars for another 15-20 years of productive service on the Canadian and other long-haul and remote trains, but reduced operating costs by more than $20 million annually. A subsequent HEP 2 program applied the same modernization techniques and systems to 33 Budd stainless steel cars for use in the Quebec-Windsor Corridor.
As far back as the 1950s, Budd proudly proclaimed that not one piece of its rolling stock had ever been retired because it had worn out. More than half-a-century later, VIA’s HEP 1 and 2 fleets reinforce that accurate claim.

VIA did it before, surely they can do it again. By the way, 2010-2013 would be 20 years since 1990-1993. Looks like VIA is going to get more than 20 years service since the last rebuilds.

And like Amtrak, VIA has received money to not only overhaul its F40 locos, LRC fleet, but now even some Chateau and other ex-CP stainless steel cars. It was mentioned that a similar overhaul that was done in 1990-1993 will be done again (right down to the HVAC system and car body structure and intrior). Eight Chateau cars will actually receive an even upgraded interior to make them all “double bedroom cars.” VIA is still claiming they have 20+ years left with this latest renovation, with no new purchase of equipment on the horizon. However, if VIA was to ever expand service, they will likely have to buy some equipment now that the Canadian consist “swells” so much during peak period.

[jp1822]

So can anyone confirm if the Capitol Limited has indeed returned with the full service Superliner Diners, as opposed to the "Cross Country Cafe" modeled cars? And will the Lake Shore Limited have the Heritage diners in two by the end of the year or beginning of 2010 - rotating, eventually, the Viewliner Diner into service?