Commuter Rail Contracts

[Gilbert B Norman]

There is related discussion to the new facilities VRE plans to be located in Spotsylvania County to the South of Fredericksburg (a home rule municipality over which no county has any jurisdiction):

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=65304

It appears that the new maintenance facility will also include a passenger station providing service within Spotsylvania County insomuch as they have "signed on' for VRE service (and imposed a requisite dedicated excise tax). As I understand, from material Ms. Rail Life submitted to the linked topic, the facility will be located roundly where US 17 X's the RF&P some five miles South of Fredericksburg (who knows, maybe the Station building there will again be a station; the upscale restaurant located within such, Claiborne's, recently flopped).

But I should rightly defer to her extensive knowledge of the facts and issues.

[DutchRailnut]

plans are cheap, getting plans executed takes many years to completion.
So how will VRE properly inspect and repair their fleet ?

[LIRR272]

just like LIRR and MTA are NOT aligned with the State of New York.

Not exactly sure what you mean by the above statement. The MTA is a state agency of NY and the LIRR is owned and operated by the State of NY. So can you please clarify this? I know it's not VRE related, but I'm curious.

[electricron]

just like LIRR and MTA are NOT aligned with the State of New York.

Not exactly sure what you mean by the above statement. The MTA is a state agency of NY and the LIRR is owned and operated by the State of NY. So can you please clarify this? I know it's not VRE related, but I'm curious.

Simply, does MTA or LIRR have any responsibility for providing rail or bus services for Buffalo?
I didn't think so. Look up what MTA stands for. MTA=Metropolitan Transportation Authority, not the State of New York Transportation Authority. I rest my case there!

[Tadman]

Mod Note: Please keep this one on-topic.

[LIRR272]

just like LIRR and MTA are NOT aligned with the State of New York.

Not exactly sure what you mean by the above statement. The MTA is a state agency of NY and the LIRR is owned and operated by the State of NY. So can you please clarify this? I know it's not VRE related, but I'm curious.

Simply, does MTA or LIRR have any responsibility for providing rail or bus services for Buffalo?
I didn't think so. Look up what MTA stands for. MTA=Metropolitan Transportation Authority, not the State of New York Transportation Authority. I rest my case there!

Electricron-------take it easy. Just wanted some clarification. I know what the MTA stands for after living in NYC most of my life.

However, with the new facility only at the west end of the system, wouldn't the VRE have to make a bunch of reverse moves, and deadheading equipment from DC so they can be serviced because there is no facility on the east end of the system? Wouldn't that add an extra cost to operations? They probably figured this into the equation, however it can escalate.
Most commuter systems have a facility on either end with one being a heavy repair facility.

[electricron]

However, with the new facility only at the west end of the system, wouldn't the VRE have to make a bunch of reverse moves, and deadheading equipment from DC so they can be serviced because there is no facility on the east end of the system? Wouldn't that add an extra cost to operations? They probably figured this into the equation, however it can escalate. Most commuter systems have a facility on either end with one being a heavy repair facility.

As you wrote, most - not all - have facilities at both ends. As for dead-heading, VRE was already doing that sending trains in for maintenance during the day from Union Station to Amtrak's shops, and worrying about getting them back on time for evening the rush. VRE could switch much of the daily maintenance chores to nightly chores, and not deadhead trains at all.
I believe VRE believes the new arrangement is better and will have far less deadheading moves. Whether that is true or not, I don't know. Anyways, real truth is always in the eyes of the beholder.

[Gilbert B Norman]

With the Crossroads maintenance facility in Spotsylvania County (outside of incorporated Fredericksburg), there is the entire overnight period available to perform necessary maintenance. Equipment can be "cycled" so as to protect runs on both the RF&P and the SRY to Manassas. Deadheading should be minimal.

[DutchRailnut]

Since each disc brake car has to be pit inspected , once every 48 hours , means the 100 foot pit at crossroads won't be large enough to inspect and service all cars and engines.

[LIRR272]

However, with the new facility only at the west end of the system, wouldn't the VRE have to make a bunch of reverse moves, and deadheading equipment from DC so they can be serviced because there is no facility on the east end of the system? Wouldn't that add an extra cost to operations? They probably figured this into the equation, however it can escalate. Most commuter systems have a facility on either end with one being a heavy repair facility.

As you wrote, most - not all - have facilities at both ends. As for dead-heading, VRE was already doing that sending trains in for maintenance during the day from Union Station to Amtrak's shops, and worrying about getting them back on time for evening the rush. VRE could switch much of the daily maintenance chores to nightly chores, and not deadhead trains at all.
I believe VRE believes the new arrangement is better and will have far less deadheading moves. Whether that is true or not, I don't know. Anyways, real truth is always in the eyes of the beholder.[

The move from Union Station to Ivy City doesn't require alot because the shop and yard are to the east of the station. The locomotive if it needed to be serviced or inspected would be cut off in the storage yard where the coaches layover for cleaning. So there really wasn't any deadheading to be done. Since the new shop is on the west end of the system, after the train unloads their passengers in DC (AM rush), the train would have to move back west for servicing, then back to Union Station (PM rush), then back west for the end of the day. That is alot of moves.

[the-rail-life]

Another maintenance facility is getting a redo on the Manassas line for VRE. They have a yard at Broad Run as well as the one at Crossroads. Union was always for the big projects. Like I stated somewhere else, the Crossroads yard is pretty well set to go, and the wash station is already set up. I live close enough to the yard to hear their activities, and if something went wrong equipment-wise during the evening run, they are out there overnight. Generators and engines are usually rumbling no later than 3:30am for the approx. 4:40 departure for the first train to get to Fredericksburg and leave there at 5:15. Broad Run should be operating like-wise in the future. As far as deadheading for maintenance, since the only wash is at Crossroads, the Manassas and Fred lines swap train sets every other week or so.

As far as operational deadheading, they are locked into doing that anyways and it causes problems sometimes. For example, again on the Fred line, train 304 runs at 6:10, reaches Union by 7:42, makes a mid-day run at 12:55, reaches Fred by 2:26, and deadheads back to Union for departure at 5:15. It takes about a full hour to reach Union on a straight run, and it takes about 10 minutes between Fred and Crossroads. So if something happens and that train is, say, 30 minutes late due to a mechanical problem, that train would probably leave the yard 4:15, automatically making the evening run late. You sometimes see a train run late due to "late arriving equipment"; the deadhead didn't reach Union in time for the next run.

There was a question earlier about who would maintain the trains now that Amtrak is bye-bye. Guess Amtrak was sub-contracting??:

On the equipment maintenance side, Keolis is subcontracting railcar maintenance to RailPlan International and locomotive maintenance to MotivePower Industries. As both currently provide equipment maintenance to VRE, these employees will not change.

[taoyue]

For the record, the-rail-plan's quote comes from the VRE information page on Keolis: http://www.vre.org/about/keolis.html

Railplan's overview presentation corroborates the speculation that Amtrak is already subcontracting to them on the VRE contract:

Slide 13 of: http://www.railplan.com/left_column/RPI ... /frame.htm

Mechanical Services Contracts:
Amtrak/VRE Mechanical Servicing, Inspection, and Repair:
Value: $3,255,000/year - Term: 2007-2010 w/ multi-year options

This is very interesting information. Since the maintenance was subcontracted out, the prime contractor would be responsible mostly for oversight and communication. Arguably, this is Amtrak's weakest area.

[krtaylor]

Since each disc brake car has to be pit inspected , once every 48 hours , means the 100 foot pit at crossroads won't be large enough to inspect and service all cars and engines.

Is this service hours or real-time hours? How do other systems meet it? I know Union Station has a pit, I've seen it, but I wouldn't think that would be enough for everything that runs through there, though there must be another pit at the other yards?

[DutchRailnut]

This is calender day inspections, I do not know how other carriers comply but most have sufficient pit space.

[krtaylor]

How does Amtrak handle it on the long-haul trips that take more than 48 hours to complete? Do they pit them somewhere in the middle with a full load of passengers?