All Aboard Ohio and OH proposals (Ohio 3C Corridor)

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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby Rockingham Racer » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:14 pm

Noel Weaver wrote:If Ohio really wants more and better passenger service then it is necessary for them to elect state leaders who not only will support but more importantly will provide funding for it. Until this happens they are lucky to have what they have today. It is as simple as that
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^^ What he said.
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby electricron » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:31 pm

Whereas I agree with the assessment that it's the State's responsibility to provide funding for regional intercity trains, I question whether it is wise to do so before funding intracity transit services - including streetcars, light rail, and commuter rail operations. The number of commuter passengers will always be far greater than the number of intercity passengers.
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby east point » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:13 pm

With Greyhound moving into Toledo Union Terminal maybe the ability to connect with Amtrak will give more impetus for day train(s) ?
Any idea of what routes Greyhound runs from Toledo ?
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby Noel Weaver » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:23 pm

You can check their web site but I would not be surprised if it is not too much, they have cut back service everywhere that they go and used to go in the past.
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby CComMack » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:33 pm

Greyhound's service map shows routes from Toledo to Detroit, Dayton/Cincinnati, Columbus, and Fort Wayne/Indianapolis, in addition to Chicago and Cleveland. None of those four routes will ever have passenger rail, but can (and some already do) provide good connecting feeders to Amtrak.
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby Suburban Station » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:58 pm

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:Or change the 750 mile rule. <SNIP>

the 750 miles law is arbitrary and nonsensical. that being said I can see extending the Pennsylvanian further west, maybe Toledo...particulary if the state moves forward with the second train, one of them can run earlier and terminate at Toledo with more reasonable bus connections out of PGH, CLE, and TOL than exist today.
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby Philly Amtrak Fan » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:40 pm

I'm not seeing Pennsylvania want to fund extending the Pennsylvanian further west without other state or federal support (and we know Ohio won't contribute a dime). It really doesn't help PA that much to go too far west of Pittsburgh (maybe Cleveland but even that is pushing it). I would think PA's priorities when it comes to trains would first be to increase frequency on the current Pennsylvanian/Keystone and then find a way to serve Allentown/Bethlehem and/or Scranton/Wilkes Barre (if they can get help from New Jersey Transit) and/or maybe a route from Harrisburg to Baltimore/Washington.

I'm surprised Michigan isn't doing more to bring service from Detroit to the East. If Michigan DOT just had a train from Detroit to Toledo (separate train or a fourth Wolverine routed to Toledo rather than Pontiac), passengers can connect to the LSL and CL without a Thruway bus.
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:10 pm

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:Or change the 750 mile rule. ... Trains should be funded at both a national level and a state level.

+1

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:I'm not seeing Pennsylvania want to fund extending the Pennsylvanian further west without other state or federal support (and we know Ohio won't contribute a dime). It really doesn't help PA that much to go too far west of Pittsburgh (maybe Cleveland but even that is pushing it). I would think PA's priorities when it comes to trains would first be to increase frequency on the current Pennsylvanian/Keystone and then find a way to serve Allentown/Bethlehem and/or Scranton/Wilkes Barre (if they can get help from New Jersey Transit) and/or maybe a route from Harrisburg to Baltimore/Washington.

Also, PA has a good thing with the Pennsylvanian - even if it doesn't have a prime schedule for the entire state, it tends to run on/near time and does its job well. Extending it to Cleveland introduces much more risk of delay, which snowballs exponentially if extended further west to Toledo, Detroit, or Chicago.

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:I'm surprised Michigan isn't doing more to bring service from Detroit to the East. If Michigan DOT just had a train from Detroit to Toledo (separate train or a fourth Wolverine routed to Toledo rather than Pontiac), passengers can connect to the LSL and CL without a Thruway bus.

(Emphasis mine) would be on my list too; somewhere below direct Lansing-Detroit service and direct-to-Canada service, somewhere above service from the Upper Peninsula to Chicago via Green Bay. It'd be better as a Lansing-Detroit-Toledo-Columbus train.
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby Philly Amtrak Fan » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:44 pm

mtuandrew wrote:It'd be better as a Lansing-Detroit-Toledo-Columbus train.


So that would serve Michigan State, Ohio State, and (if it passes through Ann Arbor) Michigan. We can call it the "Big Ten" (assuming we get licensing rights)?
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:30 pm

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:So that would serve Michigan State, Ohio State, and (if it passes through Ann Arbor) Michigan. We can call it the "Big Ten" (assuming we get licensing rights)?

Perfect - except it'd probably take 10 hours!
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby Mackensen » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:17 pm

I'm not--don't forget that a few years ago the state bought the remainder of the Michigan Line between Kalamazoo and Dearborn and is now rehabilitating it. That's the state's top priority. After that, there's renewed interest (this comes around every so often) in restoring service on the ex-C&O between Detroit and Grand Rapids via Lansing. That had two trains a day right up until A-Day. After that, there's mutterings about a connection between the ex-C&O and ex-Michigan Central at New Buffalo so that all three services can serve the new station there.

You're not seeing increased service to Chicago until something's done about the south of the lake bottleneck and the new rolling stock shows up. Toledo service is a nice idea but you'd need to rehabilitate the Detroit-Toledo line (which hasn't seen a passenger train since 1995). The Lakes Citie needed 90 minutes back in 1994; the bus connection does it in an hour. Part of that extra time comes (IIRC) from wying the train as the current station in New Center is northeast of the line to Toledo. No way that station moves either with the Woodward streetcar opening next year. There's really nothing to hit between Detroit and Toledo either except maybe Monroe.
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Re: Ohio/Midwest service question

Postby Suburban Station » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:45 pm

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:I'm not seeing Pennsylvania want to fund extending the Pennsylvanian further west without other state or federal support (and we know Ohio won't contribute a dime). It really doesn't help PA that much to go too far west of Pittsburgh (maybe Cleveland but even that is pushing it). I would think PA's priorities when it comes to trains would first be to increase frequency on the current Pennsylvanian/Keystone and then find a way to serve Allentown/Bethlehem and/or Scranton/Wilkes Barre (if they can get help from New Jersey Transit) and/or maybe a route from Harrisburg to Baltimore/Washington.

I'm surprised Michigan isn't doing more to bring service from Detroit to the East. If Michigan DOT just had a train from Detroit to Toledo (separate train or a fourth Wolverine routed to Toledo rather than Pontiac), passengers can connect to the LSL and CL without a Thruway bus.

Well yes, it would have to be Ohio paying to extend it but much of the expense has been incurred getting to Pittsburgh and the stations would be shared. The people who connect through on the client would appreciate the slot.
I also agree penndot is rightly concerned with more pittsburgh service and keystone trips. I'd argue that philadelphia reading should be on that list
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Re: All Aboard Ohio (Ohio 3C Corridor)

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:40 pm

NEWS RELEASE: All Aboard Ohio

Exception to fair-use applies.

Chicago-Ohio rail corridor planning starts

Dec. 19, 2016
For Immediate Release
Contact: Ken Prendergast 844-464-7245
kenprendergast@allaboardohio.org

All Aboard Ohio is grateful to the business and civic leaders along the Columbus-Lima-Fort Wayne-Chicago rail corridor for their leadership and vision in raising funds to start an Alternatives Analysis and Public Input process for high-performance passenger rail into Chicago. This phase represents a starting point for the Project Development Process (PDP) for all major transportation capital improvement projects.

We also thank the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) for submitting an application to the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) to support the analysis. INDOT offered the locally raised funds, totaling $350,000, to start the PDP as part of an arrangement with the FRA. All Aboard Ohio thanks the FRA for responding to this application with its support for this first step of planning work that is due to be completed at the end of 2017. All of this success was made possible due to the efforts of the Northeast Indiana Passenger Rail Association.

To All Aboard Ohio, the benefits of developing the Columbus-Lima-Fort Wayne-Chicago corridor aren’t limited to this corridor. Significant parts of this corridor can and should be designed and developed as a trunk route for more and faster passenger trains from/to Ohio’s largest cities, including Cleveland and Cincinnati as well (see map below).

“There are only two rail corridors to the east of Chicago that lack heavy freight rail traffic and could offer the potential for frequent, reliable, 110-mph passenger trains,” said Ken Prendergast, executive director of All Aboard Ohio. “One already does – the Wolverine Corridor that was upgraded with infrastructure and safety improvements that allow 110 mph speeds for three state-sponsored Michigan passenger rail routes into Chicago.

“The other is the Fort Wayne Line,” Prendergast added. “With the support of more Ohio civic leaders like Lima Mayor David Berger, the Fort Wayne Line may someday be the route that all Ohio rail passengers use to enter Chicago safely, swiftly and reliably. We encourage more Ohio leaders to get on board the train to the Midwest’s economic capital.”

Trains from Ohio using the Fort Wayne Line into Chicago could travel to the Windy City from Columbus, Cincinnati or Cleveland in four hours or less. Travelers in closer-in cities like Toledo and Lima could arrive in downtown Chicago in three hours or less, regardless of bad weather while staying digitally connected and productive in their work. Passengers could relax on the train after a day of business in the Windy City with a cold drink or hot meal in the cafe car or by finishing up work so they can spend the evening with their family.

“With today’s announcement in Fort Wayne, we are now one step closer to realizing this vision,” Prendergast said. “Every long journey begins with a single step. That journey is now under way.”

A 2013 rail corridor feasibility study concluded that approximately 2.1 million riders would use the Chicago-Fort Wayne-Columbus route in 2020, with that number growing to more than three million in 2040. The study also estimated that for every $1 of investment, $1.70 would be generated in economic return through job growth and increased property values.


Image from above link:
Attachments
Chicago-FtWayne-Lima1text.jpg
Next stop, Willoughby
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Re: All Aboard Ohio and OH proposals (Ohio 3C Corridor)

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:27 pm

Thoughts: I had thought about moving this to the "General Discussion" thread, however, it seems to me since it's interstate, and involves Chicago, it should be Amtrak.

I combined the old 3C proposal, even though we're on to a different line (the Fort Wayne Line, to be precise) and destination (we've lost one "C" and replaced another), since it kind of morphed out of 3C. I don't think it really belongs with the Cardinal, since it's a separate proposal.
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Re: All Aboard Ohio and OH proposals (Ohio 3C Corridor)

Postby gokeefe » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:37 pm

I think this is an extraordinary development. I'm fascinated by the idea that the supporters are pursuing opening (reopening) a completely "new" corridor.
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