What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

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What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby es80ac » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:44 am

Since Amtrak has officially placed new order to buy 75 Siemens Chargers for long distance passenger operations, what will happen to the P40/P42 Genesis locomotives? The previous F40s were converted to bag coaches, I doubt the Genesis engines will go through the same route. I personally will miss the p40/p42 who has been a stable in Amtrak for so long, and their throbbing FDL engines just convey power, can't say the same about the chargers, which really have only about the same power as the P42.
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:26 am

It will be a couple of years before the Chargers rule the roost, for now, only a major prime mover or alternator failure, or wreck
will kill off a P-40/42.
Amtrak will hold some in "LUGO" status(Laid up, good order)after most of the charger fleet is online,
sell offs to commuter operators or Scrappers/Loco leaser outfits will be possible.
Not sure if any are donated to museums(Stuffed and mounted) or tourist operators.
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby benboston » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:17 am

Increased Service...
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:37 am

Select P40s will be covering Ctrail and even SLE trains(if the state can’t get their act together with working on getting those M8s into revenue service east of New Haven.
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby Matt Johnson » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:13 am

Excess power for a glidepath to self-sufficiency!
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby eolesen » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:26 am

There will be a second-hand market for these with commuter agencies...

I could see Metra bidding for 25+ if they came available to replace 40 year old F40PH-2's and 3's).
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby Tadman » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:41 am

A few observations to make here:

Cabbages
I don't think the cabbage route is feasible given the monocoque design of the carbody. It's a stressed body, like an eggshell. Imagine trying to put a tiny rollup door on an eggshell...

Fleet size
I would assume that since there are almost 200 P's in the fleet and about 140 SC44's on order (state and corridor both), there's going to be 70-ish of the best P42's kept around for perhaps five years until the next order.

Maintenance Base
In the past, older fleets are usually consolidated at one or two maintenance bases where spares can be concentrated. Recall the last F40's ran the north end of the NEC, and the last of the Pooches ran Sunset and Autotrain. This might be hard to do considering the new SC44 is slated for corridor service out of most major hubs, including LA, Chicago, and Seattle, while New York has little use for straight diesels. I guess you could base them out of DC for use on all the LD's that change power there - Silvers, Crescent, Cardinal, Auto Train, etc... I don't believe Virginia bought any SC44's anyway. I know a new shop was built in Seattle for the SC44 so trains hubbing out of there will have the SC44 for power at some point.

As a side note, it's amazing how quiet they are! Last week I spent a bit of time on the Wolverine, which requires boarding on the south side of Chicago Union Station. The station is essentially one giant concrete tomb. It's filled with noise even mid-day when a few idling Metra locomotives lay up. While walking out of the north concourse stairways, the outbound Hiawatha passed me almost silently, and outbounds have to accelerate off the blocks and uphill. It was almost like a straight electric.
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby Alex M » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:03 am

If Amtrak was adventurous, some of these retired units could be stripped out and converted to LNG fuel tenders for FEC type operations, a sort of an ABA type consist. This depends on the price of natural gas.
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby kitn1mcc » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:49 pm

Commuter,maybe NS will do something crazzy who knows look at what happened to the f40
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby doepack » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:57 am

eolesen wrote:There will be a second-hand market for these with commuter agencies...

I could see Metra bidding for 25+ if they came available to replace 40 year old F40PH-2's and 3's).


Doubtful. Yes, money's tight, and new funding sources have yet to be identified because the state of IL is broke. That said, given Metra's conservative track record in terms of motive power, they would sooner live or die with the recently purchased F59PHI's from California while limping along with the best of the F40PH-2's/3's before looking in a GE direction. Power desperation to the point of cancelling trains would have be reached in order for them to consider these soon-to-be surplus units from Amtrak. Hope it doesn't get that bad, but you never know.

Most likely, the vast majority of them will probably stay out east somewhere...
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:42 am

Not sure if this has been addressed, but is 75 Chargers actually enough to cover LD service? You need, what, 48 for the four western LDs alone, plus protects. 150 might be enough.
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:54 am

no, but its a start of eventual replacement, neither P40 or P42 or P32acdm's was ordered in one order, they always order them in batches.
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:23 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:no, but its a start of eventual replacement, neither P40 or P42 or P32acdm's was ordered in one order, they always order them in batches.

That makes sense. Maybe they will just retire the remainder of the P40s now, and get the bulk of the fleet later. I just worry that One Mass won’t follow up an order for more LD power (then will use that as an excuse not to order enough LD cars.)
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby east point » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:07 pm

We suspect that the retirements of P-40 and P-42s will see the end of their service anywhere. Remember the problems with trucks caused by improper maintenance that has sidelined some already. Granted those locos are in the worse condition. There is a constant cannibalization of trucks off seriously ill locos now which may leave none to be bought by other agencies without trying to find replacement trucks!
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Re: What will happen to P40/P42 locomotives?

Postby frequentflyer » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:37 pm

I imagine wants to rid itself of them. The states have Chargers and now Amtrak ordered Chargers for LDTs. Maintenance costs will surely go down with whatever Siemen's mx contract there is and less stocking of parts. Eventually there will Siemens Chargers operating to the four corners of the country, why keep a tired GE around locomotive around on the property?

Also, do not be surprised if Amtrak does not try to reduce some LDTs to one unit instead of two. With that being the case 75 units will come close to doing the job.
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