New York State Expansion Thoughts

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, gprimr1, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman

Re: New York State Expansion Thoughts

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:01 pm

Is passenger service to the Tier (from anywhere) what Tier residents want, or are we just assuming that's the way to their hearts?
User avatar
mtuandrew
 
Posts: 4009
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am
Location: the Manassas Gap Independent Line

Re: New York State Expansion Thoughts

Postby gokeefe » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:26 pm

I think the question to ask is whether or not passenger rail service would better serve the public and assist economic development. That is a goal you can be certain the public wants. If passenger rail service supports that great ... If it doesn't then I think you're in trouble.

The case for service remains strong for any community that has significant economic links to New York City.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 9693
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: New York State Expansion Thoughts

Postby east point » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:12 pm

Now if the interstates in the future require self driving vehicles then the demand for passenger rail ? ? Too expensive for most persons ?
east point
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:50 pm

Re: New York State Expansion Thoughts

Postby gokeefe » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:26 pm

east point wrote:Now if the interstates in the future require self driving vehicles then the demand for passenger rail ? ? Too expensive for most persons ?


Actually I think self-driving vehicles will only increase congestion due to all sorts of people who will now be able to transport themselves who currently cannot.

They also have the same weaknesses and issues that any car does, specifically that one must stop the vehicle to use the restroom and they don't typically have a fully stocked cafe car attached. :-D

That being said ... I think there are a lot of people who would use their self-driving (and perhaps self-parking) vehicles to transport themselves curbside at the train station where they will then commence the longer distance journey.

These thoughts would point to the possible idea that rail passenger service is only more likely (not less likely) to become important. Also worth noting that for many of these folks transportation to the airport, although easier may not necessarily be any more attractive due to the inconveniences of security checkpoints and the generally cramped conditions in airline cabins.

All of this adds up to the likelihood that demand for passenger rail can be expected to continue to increase over time.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 9693
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: New York State Expansion Thoughts

Postby Noel Weaver » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:24 pm

The entire Southern Tier is very close to NY-17 a modern and fast highway in every respect. Binghamton via Scranton would involve more time by train than by bus, the operating costs would be high and probably not more than one daily round trip. The same dollars would be much better spent in support of better express bus services. Hourly bus service would better serve Binghamton than one passenger train a day would and at less cost. I am all for improved passenger train service but in this case I don't think it is warranted and busses would provide better service. As for Binghamton via Port Jervis this would be a total and huge waste of money.
Noel Weaver
Noel Weaver
 
Posts: 9330
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Re: New York State Expansion Thoughts

Postby BandA » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:29 pm

Just thought of this...a self-driving car could be directed to drop you off then park somewhere that is inexpensive or free. It could also be a shared vehicle or an Uber. Any of these cases could mess with the economics of competing trains, especially in high real-estate areas like NYC area.
User avatar
BandA
 
Posts: 1825
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:47 am

Re: New York State Expansion Thoughts

Postby EuroStar » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:42 am

BandA wrote:Just thought of this...a self-driving car could be directed to drop you off then park somewhere that is inexpensive or free. It could also be a shared vehicle or an Uber. Any of these cases could mess with the economics of competing trains, especially in high real-estate areas like NYC area.

The disruptions coming with self-driving cars are very difficult to predict (as is the timing of their actual adoption). Parking the cars somewhere inexpensive will mean more congestion because for NYC that pretty much means driving to NJ, Long Island or at least the far reaches of Queens. Congestion could go down however because of car sharing where after the car drops you off goes and picks me up (because say my work schedule is different than yours). In the city that could mean fewer cars parked on the side of the streets and more travel lanes available. Reduction in the number of cars might happen naturally if the new cars are more and more expensive and fewer and fewer people can afford to own one (while renting one on demand remains reasonably cheap). If the new self-driving cars are cheap though, the opposite might happen with everyone, including children, having a dedicated vehicle for personal use. In my opinion it is impossible to predict which effect will win out, so it is unknown whether there will be less or more demand for train service.
EuroStar
 
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere

Re: New York State Expansion Thoughts

Postby Ridgefielder » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:34 am

Noel Weaver wrote:The entire Southern Tier is very close to NY-17 a modern and fast highway in every respect. Binghamton via Scranton would involve more time by train than by bus, the operating costs would be high and probably not more than one daily round trip. The same dollars would be much better spent in support of better express bus services. Hourly bus service would better serve Binghamton than one passenger train a day would and at less cost. I am all for improved passenger train service but in this case I don't think it is warranted and busses would provide better service. As for Binghamton via Port Jervis this would be a total and huge waste of money.
Noel Weaver

Noel,

There's no question that NY17 is a fast highway, or that an express bus would be quicker than a train for say the first 150 of the ~180 miles from Binghamton to NYC.

The problem is that last 30 miles. Past Middletown NY, 17 turns into a congested commuter artery that feeds you into the Eastern Spur of the Jersey Turnpike. Take the route through Scranton on the interstate, and after Parsippany you're on either I-80 going through Patterson or NJ-3 through Clifton-- both perpetually busy. Regardless of whether the bus uses the PA or NY routing, either it ends up at the Lincoln Tunnel and the dreaded Port Authority Bus Terminal: perhaps the only transportation facility in the NY metro area that is more widely-loathed and overcrowded than NY Penn.

/Brendan
Ridgefielder
 
Posts: 2299
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: Harlem Division MP 15

Re: New York State Expansion Thoughts

Postby scottychaos » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:52 am

Most people studying the coming revolution of self-driving cars predict that once they are *fully* adopted, and there are no longer any humans driving vehicles at all, then highway efficiency will be increased dramatically and congestion issues will be dramatically decreased..because the #1 cause of accidents and slow-downs is: bad drivers. Take the humans out of the equation, and things improve on a massive scale. Its still 25 to 50 years away for full adoption, but its coming, it will definately happen..an interesting video on the topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHzzSao6ypE

Scot
~ Scot Lawrence
Moderator: Lehigh Valley
Co-Moderator: Anthracite Railroads
Scot's railroad webpages
User avatar
scottychaos
 
Posts: 4498
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:18 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Previous

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GojiMet86 and 5 guests