Superliner II Sleeping Cars

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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby Matt Johnson » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:35 pm

Alcochaser wrote:The biggest issue with the Super Is are those wackball Waggon Union MD76 trucks.

Parts are a SERIOUS issue.


I understand that's why the Superliners are limited to 100 mph, and that the Superliner IIs are technically good for 125 but just aren't certified for it.
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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:19 pm

Amtrak has been rebuilding the Super I trucks to get rid of the air spring suspension setup going to a normal metal spring setup,
in some cases have replaced them with the GSC trucks used on the Super II's, View I's,and View II's.
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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:26 pm

Backshophoss wrote:Amtrak has been rebuilding the Super I trucks to get rid of the air spring suspension setup going to a normal metal spring setup, in some cases have replaced them with the GSC trucks used on the Super II's, View I's,and View II's.

The Amfleets are oddballs then with the Pioneers, while St. Louis-GSI Series 70s are standard for most passenger equipment.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:56 pm

The Amfleet "pioneer III" design was "cloned" by BBD for the Comet/Shoreliner Commuter cars. not really "oddball" at all.
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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby mtuandrew » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:11 pm

Matt Johnson wrote:I understand that's why the Superliners are limited to 100 mph, and that the Superliner IIs are technically good for 125 but just aren't certified for it.

NJT's Multis sway enough at 100 on the NEC (haven't ridden MARC's yet); an S-II at 125 mph would be a WILD ride, especially when trying to sleep in a berth :P Are Alstom's California Cars and Surfliners in the same situation, and would a potential S-III be certifiable?

Hoss: oh, the Shoreliners got Pioneer clone trucks? I thought they got the GSI-70s like the P-S Comets.
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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby Matt Johnson » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:47 pm

mtuandrew wrote:Are Alstom's California Cars and Surfliners in the same situation, and would a potential S-III be certifiable?


Yes, the California cars and Alstom Surfliner cars are technically good for 125 mph.
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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:40 am

The NJT Comet II's and the ConnDOT/MN Shoreliner I's were BBD pioneer III clone trucks.
The Horizon Fleet used the GSC-70 Trucks,believe the View I's were the first use of the GSC-70 trucks after testing on the Budd built
prototypes,the Super II's and Surfliners gen 1 and gen 2 followed,then the View II's
Also the BBD pioneer clone wound up on the "Sausage" type commuter bi-levels used by GOT,Metrolink,NMRX,SCAX,and other commuter ops.
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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby Tadman » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:46 pm

I find it funny that the Metroliner EMU started with the U-shaped trucks and they switched to Pioneer trucks (designed for an EMU) when they made unpowered Amfleets.

Meanwhile, Pullman builds the commuter comet with knockoff Pioneer trucks until Amtrak comes along and buys a raft of them, but decides to go back to that U-shaped truck.

I give up...

I'm sure there are good explanations here, but I don't know them.
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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby mtuandrew » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:19 pm

OT for this thread, but inside-equalizer trucks are lighter with less unsprung mass, and can have disc brakes mounted outboard of the wheels (no need to have a two-piece disc or press off a wheel to change it.) Outside-equalizer trucks are easier to maintain because their bearings are outboard (no need to press a wheel off an axle to change a bearing.) All other things being equal, it's a matter of whether you operate high speed stop-and-go service with a maintenance base nearby, or if your service is at moderate speeds and your car shop is a thousand miles distant.

The Metroliner would have been an unquestionably more reliable MU with Pioneer-design trucks; there is a story about why PRR and USDOT insisted on much heavier outboard-equalizer trucks (something like AAR Type B? Much heavier & larger than what belongs under an MU) but I don't know it offhand.
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Re: Superliner II Sleeping Cars

Postby Alcochaser » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:44 pm

The Metro liners had the truck sideframes and drop equalizers outside the wheels because of the MU traction motors.

If you use a truck like the Amfleet's have, that reduces the space available for the Traction motor. And by result reduces size and capacity of the traction motor.

You can see this on the various units made for the Meter gauge railroad. EVFM ordered standard SD45s. But six meter gauge sized traction motors could not take the current from an AR10 turned by 3600HP. The solution was eight traction motors.

To get around this. The pioneer III used an obnoxious gearbozx. Even with the gearbox. it restricted the traction motor size. Which is why they changed things on the Silverliner II
Image

The Metroliner was intended for 150+ speeds. To do that they needed all the traction motor they could get. The motors used on the Metroliners 300HP per traction motor. About 1200HP per car. Your not going to push that thru that kooky pioneer gearbox.
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