Washington DC Union Station Expansion

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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby east point » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:35 pm

Remodeling will definitely require storage for trains. More storage is actually needed now.
1. VRE would like to add cars to some trains due to overcrowding but are train length limited due to no storage. As well VRE did not plan their station platforms in Va for easy lengthening. VRE even stores a train set(S) at L'Enfant for lack of storage at Ivy City. They have more cars on order but no place to put the cars on present trains. VRE would also like to eventually have a spare train set at Ivy City.
2. The same applies to MARC as well.
3. Amtrak as well will need more storage space very shortly.
a. Longer and more Acela-2 train sets.
b. Probable more single level coach types expected to begin in 2019 will lengthen existing regional trains as some LD cars will flow down to regionals..
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby electricron » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:40 pm

Alstom has released some basic specifications for the Avelia Liberty trains
http://www.alstom.com/Global/Transport/ ... uage=en-GB

The base order of 9 trailers and 2 power cars will be 212 meters long, or 695 feet long.
The existing 6 trailers and 2 power cars Acelas are 202 meters long, or 663 feet long.
The new trains will only be 32 feet longer than the existing Acela trains.

I repeat just 32 feet longer.
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby gokeefe » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:21 pm

Agreed. I've boarded the Silver Star on the low level platforms at Union Station. Not easy at all for physically impaired passengers.
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:23 pm

That will mean the "High Speed" shops will need to expand at least 45 more feet to cover the "Liberty" set,
However,these sets can be extended up to 12 cars between the Power cars.
Wonder if Amtrak will "spring" for extra cars to expand the sets down the road?
It's getting real cramped at Ivy city yard......
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby afiggatt » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:28 am

STrRedWolf wrote:I think this remodelling will require another storage area for trains. I remember that there was the "Ivy City Yard" planned but I don't know where it would be and what came out of the plans.

It was in the news last summer that VRE was investigating building storage tracks in an open space along New York Avenue and on the south side of the main NEC tracks. The proposal is facing local opposition because the tracks would go where there are plans for a connecting trail. The storage tracks or some of them could be decked over for a trail and to lessen the impact on the neighborhood, but that wouldn't be inexpensive. The Greater Greater Washington blog had a post on the VRE proposal/study in July: Picture a rail yard, but with bike lanes and parks on top.

If VRE is able to build its own set of storage, that frees up space at Ivy City - during the day on weekdays anyway - for Amtrak. I believe some of the Acela II acquisition $2.45 billion RRIF loan is going to fund reconfiguration or expansion at the Ivy City Yard besides the WAS Clayton concourse project.
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby gokeefe » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:49 am

When you read through threads like this one you can start to realize why Amtrak's operating loss was among the lowest in its history in the past year. The amount of service expansion being contemplated makes my head spin a little almost every time I read about it ...
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby andegold » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:02 pm

While the overall length is only 32 feet longer how does the length of the power cars compare? What is the comparable length of the seating area?


electricron wrote:Alstom has released some basic specifications for the Avelia Liberty trains
http://www.alstom.com/Global/Transport/ ... uage=en-GB

The base order of 9 trailers and 2 power cars will be 212 meters long, or 695 feet long.
The existing 6 trailers and 2 power cars Acelas are 202 meters long, or 663 feet long.
The new trains will only be 32 feet longer than the existing Acela trains.

I repeat just 32 feet longer.
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby STrRedWolf » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:05 pm

afiggatt wrote:It was in the news last summer that VRE was investigating building storage tracks in an open space along New York Avenue and on the south side of the main NEC tracks. The proposal is facing local opposition because the tracks would go where there are plans for a connecting trail. The storage tracks or some of them could be decked over for a trail and to lessen the impact on the neighborhood, but that wouldn't be inexpensive. The Greater Greater Washington blog had a post on the VRE proposal/study in July: Picture a rail yard, but with bike lanes and parks on top.


So a 5-track yard for VRE... Okay...

That may butt up against the 4-track WAS-to-BOS plans. Right now the bottleneck is the B&P tunnel due to two tracks only at 30 MPH due to Civil War era infrastructure and design. Once the Circle Tunnels are built, the next bottleneck will be whatever is two tracks, regardless of speed. Past K-Tower northbound, the NEC is really only two tracks until CARROL interlocking. Having a five track yard where Amtrak could lay down another two tracks might conflict with that.
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby mtuandrew » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:08 am

The simplest solution is still running VRE through to the MARC Camden or Brunswick Lines, isn't it? Penn is out because of speed and platform restrictions on VRE's galleries.
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby STrRedWolf » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:22 pm

Not really. Here's a breakdown from Greater Greater Washington: Through-running isn't so easy for MARC and VRE (two parts)
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby mtuandrew » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:34 pm

Hm, I had forgotten the crossover at the throat of WAS. Frustrating but makes sense. (Also why a gallery design with end high vestibules makes sense, but that isnt in the scope of this discussion.)
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby east point » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:06 pm

Although there may be changes the Master plan has several eventual improvements. Some of our conclusions are probably wrong. Included is a set of 8 - 12 (?) tracks below the present upper level tracks and connections from these tracks to the south thru another tunnel probably parallel to the 1st street tunnel.


https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/919/171/Wa ... 201207.pdf
Last edited by east point on Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby ExCon90 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:24 pm

That's certainly what it looks like on page 15: 9 tracks, expandable to 12, with access to both the north and south through new tunnels in both directions. Be nice if they can ever do it.
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby mtuandrew » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:16 pm

Where do you suppose they would bore that west-side tunnel? If it parallels the current one, it would be under the Capitol!!
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Re: Washington DC Union Station Expansion

Postby electricron » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:33 pm

mtuandrew wrote:The simplest solution is still running VRE through to the MARC Camden or Brunswick Lines, isn't it? Penn is out because of speed and platform restrictions on VRE's galleries.

Nope!
The simplist solution is to run some of the VRE trains back to Virginia providing a reverse commute ride. These same trains can also be used to provide a reverse commute service in the afternoon rush, before returning back to Virginia for the night. Not every VRE train needs to, but each one that does is one less train of storage they need in D.C. for the day.
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