Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby justalurker66 » Mon May 29, 2017 11:44 pm

merrick1 wrote:
justalurker66 wrote: I have read NTSB reports that affix blame to named individuals as well as to the airlines/railroad companies. But they are not prosecutors so they do not turn their results into charges.

Isn't it pretty rare for the NTSB to name individuals in their reports, even if the person is well known? For example, although JFK Jr. was mentioned by name in NTSB press releases the actual report just referred to "the pilot."

Mr K's name should appear somewhere in that report identifying him as the pilot. It is possible to omit names. But I have seen reports with named individuals and affixed blame. I would not consider it rare but would not expect the names to be used throughout the report unless needed to make the report unambiguous as to whom did what.

That being said, most of the reports I recall seem to blame companies for allowing or encouraging any defective behavior that caused an incident. For example, a signal maintainer who disables a crossing gate and causes a collision may not get blamed while the employing railroad would receive rebuke for failure to train or equip or whatever could have prevented such in incident. If no fault could be found in training or supervision the employee would receive the rebuke.

In recent years the NTSB has been so focused on PTC that the lack of PTC has become the cause for many rail incidents. Even those that were clearly employee error.
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby Greg Moore » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:56 pm

Court has ruled it was an accident, not a crime

Judge Thomas Gehret says that based on the evidence offered by prosecutors, he feels it is "more likely an accident than criminal negligence."

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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby John_Perkowski » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:28 pm

Here is the Washington Post article.

Extract, fair use:
PHILADELPHIA — A judge on Tuesday dismissed criminal charges against the engineer in an Amtrak derailment in Philadelphia that killed eight people, citing a lack of evidence.

“Based on this evidence, I feel it’s more likely an accident than criminal negligence,” Judge Thomas Gehret said after a preliminary hearing for Brandon Bostian, who faced charges that included involuntary manslaughter and reckless endangerment.
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:18 pm

Hope nobody thinks that Mr. Bostian's life will be "back to normal" being "restored to service with seniority unimpaired but without payment for time lost". What discipline, if any, assessed by Amtrak is "sealed".

Although I believe Mr. Bostian is a good man who wanted only to operate trains reliably and safely, no road under FRA jurisdiction will again afford him that opportunity. Maybe some railroad museum will allow him.
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby Silverliner II » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:01 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Hope nobody thinks that Mr. Bostian's life will be "back to normal" being "restored to service with seniority unimpaired but without payment for time lost". What discipline, if any, assessed by Amtrak is "sealed".

Although I believe Mr. Bostian is a good man who wanted only to operate trains reliably and safely, no road under FRA jurisdiction will again afford him that opportunity. Maybe some railroad museum will allow him.

I've had to make that same point to people on other forums and venues. The mere fact that people died under his care is more than enough weighing on him for the rest of his life; at least the legal side of it is closed for him, as far as criminal liability goes. Time for the powers that be to let him move on with his life, changed as it is now.
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby n2cbo » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:23 pm

Greg Moore wrote:Court has ruled it was an accident, not a crime

Judge Thomas Gehret says that based on the evidence offered by prosecutors, he feels it is "more likely an accident than criminal negligence."



THANK GOD!!!!!

As I said in a previous post, IMHO the person(s) who SHOULD be charged with a criminal act is whoever threw the rock!!!!
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:42 am

what rock?? read investigation? 188 was nearly 4 miles past rock incident .
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby Silverliner II » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:25 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:what rock?? read investigation? 188 was nearly 4 miles past rock incident .

The inference was to place blame on the person or persons that instigated the start of the entire chain of events involving the other trains that ultimately culminated in the wreck of 188, be it rock or other projectile that struck the SEPTA train and the westbound Acela beforehand.
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby Woody » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:07 pm

Silverliner II wrote:
Gilbert B Norman wrote:... life will [not ever] be "back to normal" ...

... a good man who wanted only to operate trains reliably and safely

... The mere fact that people died under his care ... weighing on him for the rest of his life ...

No evidence at all, but I have a strong feeling that despite his eight years of good service, Joe Boardman carries similar pain. It happened on his watch. In a tragedy like this, from Amtrak's employees and passengers and the victim's families and friends, more than enuff pain to go around.
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby n2cbo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:31 pm

Silverliner II wrote:
DutchRailnut wrote:what rock?? read investigation? 188 was nearly 4 miles past rock incident .

The inference was to place blame on the person or persons that instigated the start of the entire chain of events involving the other trains that ultimately culminated in the wreck of 188, be it rock or other projectile that struck the SEPTA train and the westbound Acela beforehand.


Exactly!
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby BandA » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:01 pm

Are the inward-facing cab cameras in place so that at least we never have a situation again where we are guessing what happened.
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:59 pm

Believe he will still be dealing with Lawsuits from the family members,even though Amtrak settled and paid off.
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:14 pm

"Blood from a turnip", Mr. Backshop.

The only job he will ever get is flipping 'em at MickeyD.

His life is ruined. I pray the outcome will not be the same as for Capt. McVeigh of the USS Indianapolis.
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby justalurker66 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:18 pm

Silverliner II wrote:The inference was to place blame on the person or persons that instigated the start of the entire chain of events involving the other trains that ultimately culminated in the wreck of 188, be it rock or other projectile that struck the SEPTA train and the westbound Acela beforehand.

Yep. Lets put charges against the passengers. After all, if passengers did not buy tickets the trains would not need to run.
Or blame congress for creating Amtrak. Blame whomever invented the train. We have to go to the start of the ENTIRE chain of events.
Blame the caveman who invented the wheel ... (Have we reduced the argument to absurd yet?)

Blame everyone else. :(
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Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:32 pm

Blame the Internet forum that keeps talking about it ad nauseum. :P

The lawyers here may comment further, but unless shielded by his union, Mr. Bostian will have more days ahead in civil court.
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