Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inland

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lordsigma12345
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by lordsigma12345 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:11 pm

They are looking at 6 different alternatives including a "90 minutes or less" alternative between SPG and BOS.

east point
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by east point » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:33 pm

lordsigma12345 wrote:They are looking at 6 different alternatives including a "90 minutes or less" alternative between SPG and BOS.

Unfortunately that is still 4 hours inland BOS - New Haven as compared to 2 - 1/2 hours for the coast line. However with enough crews qualified on both routes any shut down for either route will allow service to continue NYP <> BOS ?

Arlington
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by Arlington » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:44 pm

One of the most embarrassing moments in my life as a host, American, and Bostonian was when my Australian guest arrived in Boston via an Inland (c.2000). His NEC train had been cancelled or delayed, so from NYP they offered him a seat on an Inland which then took 8 hours to go NYP-BOS (freight interference).
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

NIMBYkiller
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by NIMBYkiller » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:16 pm

If South Station is maxed out then how come North Station isn't being considered an option? It's not like the service would be alone there, you have the Downeaster (don't try that "2 terminals in a single city" argument because they've already got 2 terminals in Boston). And it's the only route where a connection between Amtrak services makes any kind of logical sense (anywhere inland to, say, PVD, via BOS is pretty ass backwards and would be better served as a coordinated bus connection). Yard/crew base wise I'm unsure how it would work, but they're making it work with the Downeaster, so why can't it work with the new inland services? With this in mind, I'd say Amtrak missed a big opportunity when CSX off loaded Beacon Yard as it could've served both stations (unless it's smaller than the existing facility). Plus you could put a stop in Cambridge predominantly geared towards the university market (students, visitors on business). Only question is does North Station have the capacity or is that maxed out as well?

Arlington
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by Arlington » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:43 pm

North Station has easier options for growth: its drawbridges will be upgraded from 4 tracks (2x2) to 6 (likely 3 double) and Tracks 11& 12 will get activated, and with straighter tracks across the draws, platforms can get lengthened. Funded & in design, done by 2026. Boston Globe

The problem is Cambridgeport locals along the Grand Junction who killed the proposal for WOR-BON commuter service. You'll have to tell them what's different from 2010~2011 Cambridge Day op-ed it's possible that there's been enough generational turnover, or will be by 2026
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

Backshophoss
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by Backshophoss » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:38 am

Believe North Station is more space restricted than South Station,and will be rebuilding the Drawbridges in the station throat.
Access to the Grand Jct trackage will be effected by the GLX build and there's no agreement to allow Amtrak equipment to be serviced
at BET.
Worcester Main is split between PAR/PAS and P&W ownership wise,also not in great shape for passenger service only used as a detour when
Grand JCT trackage is out of service/blocked access

Inland route traffic was always to/from South station,and CSX still rules the roost,Springfield-Worcester,and doesn't play nice with Amtrak. :(
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east point
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by east point » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:04 am

Any idea how many opening per day for each month of the year?

UNHAlumInCT
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by UNHAlumInCT » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:05 pm

east point wrote:
lordsigma12345 wrote:They are looking at 6 different alternatives including a "90 minutes or less" alternative between SPG and BOS.

Unfortunately that is still 4 hours inland BOS - New Haven as compared to 2 - 1/2 hours for the coast line. However with enough crews qualified on both routes any shut down for either route will allow service to continue NYP <> BOS ?
Using the Amtrak website, the quickest Amtrak option from Hartford to Boston (with a connection in New Haven) was over four hours and I saw one option at over 6.5 hours. There is an early morning option then nothing until the afternoon. An inland route no matter how slow is looking like a great option, especially with a one seat ride. I think the idea behind having inland route options is to provide one seat rides from Worcester, Springfield and Hartford to both Boston and New York. That's pretty much all new business for Amtrak except for riders of the two car shuttles. The one seat ride thing must be important because virtually everyone I know that takes the train into New York drives to New Haven and takes Metro North despite it not being as comfortable. Cheaper and more frequent service appears to win out.

Hartford to Boston should be a viable train option. Sure I can drive into Boston in 1:30-1:45 at certain times of the day, but unless I have a known reasonably priced parking option, I usually drive to Riverside or Alewife then take the T into the city. Even a 2.5-3 hour train from Hartford would be competitive.

Arlington
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by Arlington » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:21 pm

UNHAlumInCT wrote:Even a 2.5-3 hour train from Hartford [to Boston] would be competitive.
Buses offer competitive service at very very little taxpayer cost. How would the public ever earn its money back by spending 300M to 1BILLION on a service that was merely "competitive"?

Greyhound runs 8x daily taking 1h50m off-peak to 2h20m peak.
Peter pan runs 4x daily scheduling 2h20 off-peak to 2h30m peak
GoBuses run 1x daily (midday at 1h45m)

Roughly at
1AM
6AM
9AM
NOON
3PM
6PM
9PM

The justification for rail in these 1hr to 4hr trips has to be that it is FASTER and MORE RELIABLE and ROUGHLY AS OFTEN, or else the bus is going to crush rail on price and frequency.
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

east point
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by east point » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:07 pm

A very unscientific survey got this response around here. No way unless absolutely no other way I hate a bus for SD and LD especially even if have to pay 10 times as much! Take an Uber if had to.

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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by nomis » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:34 pm

Lets follow the all-mighty Lynchburger model and take the Regionals that currently are laying over in Springfield for the evening and make them extended from SPG-WOR-BOS.

Make those idle wheels keep on turnin' and collect revenue while otherwise sitting still and use the Inland route to get past 39 trains per day on the NYP-BOS. :-)
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Jehochman
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by Jehochman » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:35 pm

Buses offer competitive service at very very little taxpayer cost. How would the public ever earn its money back by spending 300M to 1BILLION on a service that was merely "competitive"?
Buses use existing highways. If there's a traffic jam, they sit, same as a car. The money for the train buys extra transportation capacity, and it' cheaper than building more highway lanes.

As a business traveler, I have zero interest in riding a bus. The environment is not conducive to working on the move. I just did a quick trip into NYC last night, and back this morning -- three hours each way, with computer open and plugged in. Had my only choices been driving or bus, I would not have gone, and that economic opportunity would have been lost.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:14 am

In general, I would rather not ride a bus, especially for three hours.

People driving from Hartford to New Haven to catch a Metro North train the rest of the way to the city is just like people who live in Philadelphia who drive to Trenton or Hamilton to catch a NJT train to the city. Unless if people are in a super rush, they would not want to pay the extremely high Amtrak fares to travel to NYC or even have to rely on a late running Septa train which has caused people to wait a very long time for the next NJT train at Trenton. Well, it probably has happened where there have been Ctrail trains that have been so late that people connecting to Metro North trains end up missing their connections.

If Amtrak ever brought back its inland trains, they would do very well with passengers traveling to Boston from intermediate points along the Springfield Line, especially Hartford. I don't think many people would want to backtrack from Hartford to New Haven to pick up any trains heading to Boston. The closer you get to Hartford, then you might as well just head inland toward Springfield and Boston. It would be nice if the state let CSX add a third track along the stretch of their right of way between Boston and Worcester.

South Station is definately at or above capacity and when MBTA starts running trains to New Bedford if that ever happens, then capacity will have to be added at South Station.

east point
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by east point » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:13 am

My business used to take me flying to Windsor Locks often on Fridays. Then often a trip to BOS visiting relatives necessitating going to New Haven and then to BOS What a bummer. LSL would get me back on Sundays.

dowlingm
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Re: Amtrak Springfield Line Shuttle/Regional/Greenfield/Inla

Post by dowlingm » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 am

Backshophoss wrote:there's no agreement to allow Amtrak equipment to be serviced at BET.
This is also an impediment to overnighting Downeaster at BON. But maybe combined with Inland Route services, there is enough "there" to bother figuring out what it would take to get it done, benefiting both services?

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