Siemens Charger Locomotives

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Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby AMTK822401 » Fri May 23, 2014 11:52 pm

http://www.siemens.com/press/en/pressre ... 403009.htm

It seems that, sadly, the days of the Genesis engines are numbered. IMO, they will regret not going back to GE/EMD. Any other opinions on this?
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby ngotwalt » Sat May 24, 2014 12:01 am

I'm sorry, but an order for 32 locomotives does not make me fear for the P42s impending doom. Yes there is an option for 225 more, and when that option gets executed, then we can start talking about the last Genesis runs, until then, this is an order for corridor locomotives to go with the new bilevels.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Fan Railer » Sat May 24, 2014 12:12 am

This is old news and was being discussed elsewhere in this forum.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby AMTK822401 » Sat May 24, 2014 12:14 am

ngotwalt wrote:I'm sorry, but an order for 32 locomotives does not make me fear for the P42s impending doom. Yes there is an option for 225 more, and when that option gets executed, then we can start talking about the last Genesis runs, until then, this is an order for corridor locomotives to go with the new bilevels.
Cheers,
Nick


I think Siemens inexpereince with the realties of American diesel locomotives will make these units fail. What it does mean, however, is Amtrak is actively looking for a replacement for the good ol' Gennies
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby AMTK822401 » Sat May 24, 2014 12:16 am

Fan Railer wrote:This is old news and was being discussed elsewhere in this forum.


Charger=/= ACS 64. Besides, there is no topic on it on the first page
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby mtuandrew » Sat May 24, 2014 12:22 am

AMTK822401 wrote:
Fan Railer wrote:This is old news and was being discussed elsewhere in this forum.


Charger=/= ACS 64. Besides, there is no topic on it on the first page

On this first page: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=151460 (though to be fair, the thread title is about the acquisition process, not the specific equipment.)
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Fan Railer » Sat May 24, 2014 12:33 am

AMTK822401 wrote:
Fan Railer wrote:This is old news and was being discussed elsewhere in this forum.


Charger=/= ACS 64. Besides, there is no topic on it on the first page

as mtu stated... you should read into threads before jumping to conclusions.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Matt Johnson » Sat May 24, 2014 12:41 am

That thing got a hemi?
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby AMTK822401 » Sat May 24, 2014 12:57 am

Fan Railer wrote:
AMTK822401 wrote:
Fan Railer wrote:This is old news and was being discussed elsewhere in this forum.


Charger=/= ACS 64. Besides, there is no topic on it on the first page

as mtu stated... you should read into threads before jumping to conclusions.


You are being rather combative
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby Backshophoss » Sat May 24, 2014 1:39 am

If this is about the Cummins powered wonder,that Cat/EMD protested about,Cummins still
has plenty of R+D to do to create a prime mover for the locos.
The gensets DON'T count!
The EVO based kit that GE developed(MBTA-HSP-46) will be the better bet.
Illinois was the lead on this bid for the midwest group of states also buying a part of the 2nd gen Surfliner
order built in Rochelle Il.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby ngotwalt » Sat May 24, 2014 5:35 am

I think Siemens inexpereince with the realties of American diesel locomotives will make these units fail. What it does mean, however, is Amtrak is actively looking for a replacement for the good ol' Gennies


Don't sell Siemens short. They're probably the global leader in railway motive power. We think highly of GE and EMD, but they only build diesel locomotives, Siemens does a whole lot more, and I would not under estimate the Germans in anyway.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby dowlingm » Sat May 24, 2014 6:48 am

What is this "I hope they fail" nonsense. If anything this should make EMD and GE being forward better offerings in specification and pricing terms - EMD has made an F125 sale which means there will be a running locomotive to compare vs the Charger. Also Siemens assemble in California rather than a race to the bottom state which cares little for advancing passenger rail (Indiana). That said, Cummins are placing a big bet here, having already had to substitute on Metrolinx' MP40 repower. Given their importance to rail (in the DMU space particularly) and non-rail transit engines a bad outcome for this contract could have significant wider implications.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby gokeefe » Sat May 24, 2014 12:46 pm

I think it is interesting to observe a foreign company inching in on territory that has almost always been a lock for American products. First they made their move with the ACS-64. No big deal there, electric traction has been imported for a long time now especially since the less than stellar performance of the E60s. Easy enough for executives at EMD and to a lesser extent at GE to write off as "insignificant", "meaningless" or "trivial".

Not so "trivial" would be the entry of a third major diesel-electric option into the American motive power market. While the Siemens product is likely a "passenger-first" design I doubt that anything powered by Caterpillar would have much difficulty being repurposed for freight. By securing the Amtrak contract Siemens provided startup work for their California plant, quietly gained a foothold in North America (which has one of the largest motive power markets in the world) and now is slowly ramping up to produce a diesel-electric option. I hope the suits in the Executive Suites in La Grange and the Heller Building in Chicago (GE Transportation) are taking this threat to their market dominance seriously.If they don't it could cost them their jobs.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby ThirdRail7 » Sat May 24, 2014 1:54 pm

ngotwalt wrote:
I think Siemens inexpereince with the realties of American diesel locomotives will make these units fail. What it does mean, however, is Amtrak is actively looking for a replacement for the good ol' Gennies


Don't sell Siemens short. They're probably the global leader in railway motive power. We think highly of GE and EMD, but they only build diesel locomotives, Siemens does a whole lot more, and I would not under estimate the Germans in anyway.
Cheers,
Nick



gokeefe wrote:I think it is interesting to observe a foreign company inching in on territory that has almost always been a lock for American products. First they made their move with the ACS-64. No big deal there, electric traction has been imported for a long time now especially since the less than stellar performance of the E60s. Easy enough for executives at EMD and to a lesser extent at GE to write off as "insignificant", "meaningless" or "trivial".

Not so "trivial" would be the entry of a third major diesel-electric option into the American motive power market. While the Siemens product is likely a "passenger-first" design I doubt that anything powered by Caterpillar would have much difficulty being repurposed for freight. By securing the Amtrak contract Siemens provided startup work for their California plant, quietly gained a foothold in North America (which has one of the largest motive power markets in the world) and now is slowly ramping up to produce a diesel-electric option. I hope the suits in the Executive Suites in La Grange and the Heller Building in Chicago (GE Transportation) are taking this threat to their market dominance seriously.If they don't it could cost them their jobs.


As Ngotwalt previously mentioned, this is a small order. The ACS-64s are barely on the beam and what is operating is less than stellar thus far. The game is too young for this sort of speculation.
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Re: Siemens Charger Locomotives

Postby dowlingm » Sat May 24, 2014 5:52 pm

Siemens have been selling into the US since before the Civil War. They may be owned by foreigners but so are Bombardier, Alstom, CAF, Talgo, Stadler, Nippon Sharyo, Rotem, Kawasaki. What the US does have is the market power to have legislation like Buy America and get away with it, resulting in significant foreign direct investment to the US.
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