ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby 8th Notch » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:06 pm

frequentflyer wrote:So whats happens to the scapped unit? WIll some of the parts go back to Siemens such as the guts or are they warehoused? The body gets scrapped or warehoused? Simple stuff like the engineer's stand, what happens to items like these? One would think if Amtrak ordered a frame from Siemens they could make their own Sprinter.


The units or unit will be stripped of all usable parts if it hasn't been by now and the rest will go to scrap!
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby David Benton » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:11 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
frequentflyer wrote: One would think if Amtrak ordered a frame from Siemens they could make their own Sprinter.


Mr. Flyer raises a good point here. If an ACS-64 production line is to be opened to fulfil the SEPTA orders presently on the books, you'd think that whatever fabricator gets that subcontract could be economically contracted with for one more frame. That frame would then be shipped to Wilmington and, presuming the work rebuilding 626 was to be done in house, it would be "get to work boys and girls".

I would think it would be more economical to buy a complete unit from Siemens( if needed), and use the wrecks for parts.
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby mtuandrew » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:44 pm

David Benton wrote:I would think it would be more economical to buy a complete unit from Siemens( if needed), and use the wrecks for parts.

As long as Siemens hasn't changed any particular parts or electronics between the current run and a future build (I.e. the ALP-44O/E/M variants which never quite played well together on NJT) it makes a lot of sense for Amtrak to buy another couple of new ones. If Siemens has made changes, it makes more sense to buy a shell and have Bear reassemble things.
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby USRailFan » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:18 am

David Benton wrote:
Gilbert B Norman wrote:
frequentflyer wrote: One would think if Amtrak ordered a frame from Siemens they could make their own Sprinter.


Mr. Flyer raises a good point here. If an ACS-64 production line is to be opened to fulfil the SEPTA orders presently on the books, you'd think that whatever fabricator gets that subcontract could be economically contracted with for one more frame. That frame would then be shipped to Wilmington and, presuming the work rebuilding 626 was to be done in house, it would be "get to work boys and girls".

I would think it would be more economical to buy a complete unit from Siemens( if needed), and use the wrecks for parts.


ÖBB bought three "Empty shells" some years ago, and filled them with the usable remains of three wrecked Taurus (IIRC one had burned, the two others wrecked), giving them the same numbers etc as the wrecked ones.
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:03 am

When the ACS-64 production line starts up for the SEPTA,Siemens can build 2 prewired Shells for Amtrak,
then let the crew at Wilmington Shop recycle the parts from the wreck remains to the 2 replacement motors shells.
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby R3 Passenger » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:49 pm

It appears that the production line for SEPTA has already begun based on the photos on SEPTA's Fleet Upgrades webpage. The first complete locomotive is scheduled to arrive in 6 months based on the information on the page.

If Amtrak is going to jump on the SEPTA option wagon, perhaps now is the time to do so.
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby amtrakhogger » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:07 pm

I would think Amtrak may only need one shell and or frame for the 627 since the 601 is reportedly repairable (not needing a new frame or carbody.)
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby liftedjeep » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:33 pm

amtrakhogger wrote:I would think Amtrak may only need one shell and or frame for the 627 since the 601 is reportedly repairable (not needing a new frame or carbody.)


#601 is repairable?? Considering that unit supposedly rolled when it derailed, I would have thought that was the end of the line for that particular Sprinter.
Only one end of #627 was damaged when it struck the piece of construction equipment. I'm shocked that its frame was wrecked!
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:56 pm

R3 Passenger wrote:It appears that the production line for SEPTA has already begun based on the photos on SEPTA's Fleet Upgrades webpage. The first complete locomotive is scheduled to arrive in 6 months based on the information on the page.

If Amtrak is going to jump on the SEPTA option wagon, perhaps now is the time to do so.


No, the timetable for delivery of the SEPTA units has not changed at all. Siemens is beholden to the assembly deadlines on the 63 previously-ordered Chargers before they can legally release the first complete SEPTA pilot unit for testing. That's contractually set in stone because SEPTA gets its best unit price from Siemens on the Sprinters by agreeing to slot itself after the Charger obligation so Siemens didn't have to worry about getting crunched by simultaneous conflicting deadlines. However, absolutely nowhere does it say that Siemens is barred from lifting a single finger on any advance work whatsoever for the SEPTA Sprinters. They can jump as far ahead as they want on putting together the pilot inside the factory, and can declare it to be an operable locomotive as early as they want. But they are legally barred from releasing that first operable SEPTA unit from the factory for pickup until they've cleared the 63 on-order Chargers for their January 2018 assembly deadline. So it doesn't matter what the photo evidence says, or if YouTube video surfaces of a SEPTA-paint unit shown running on its own power on the plant's test track. It's not leaving the property and getting waybilled to SEPTA for pilot testing any earlier than February 2018...because it can't. Since SEPTA so far has held to its vague "early 2018" estimate for receiving the first pilot and hasn't adjusted that date forward that could mean a 'technically on-time' estimate as late as April or May, a full 6-8 months from now. Then factor in number of mandatory burn-in hours of non-revenue testing for the pilot, and it could very well be the dog days of Summer '18 before it makes its first revenue trip. Whether it hits early or late in that "early-'18" window, it's still in no way or shape a deviation from the timetable we've been quoted since Day 1 of SEPTA inking with Siemens.


All 13 base-order units won't be assembled, delivered, and accepted until mid-2019, because the pilot contractually gets such a long testing leash as standard operating procedure before the main thrust of the order comes in. So it's false and alarmist to claim that there is any hurry-up pressure for SEPTA to act on the +5 option units or make a deal to barter them to AMTK or somebody else. The options are open at mimumum through acceptance of the last base-order unit into service in 2019, meaning no financial appropriations have to be made in Fiscal Year 2017 OR Fiscal Year 2018 for those 5 extras. Most likely the deadline for exercising the options extends a little longer through the initial warranty period covering all 13 base-order units, meaning possibly as late as a FY2020 deadline for picking them up. The actual fine print of the contract could then have all kinds of variables extending it out further depending on whether Siemens gets more Charger options exercised in the meantime, since those +5 Sprinters may have to be sequenced ahead or behind the next set of tapped Charger options that may get exercised first just like this 13-unit base order of Sprinters had to get slotted behind the 32 Charger base units and the 31 Charger options that got picked up before a certain date.
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby ApproachMedium » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:36 pm

liftedjeep wrote:
amtrakhogger wrote:I would think Amtrak may only need one shell and or frame for the 627 since the 601 is reportedly repairable (not needing a new frame or carbody.)


#601 is repairable?? Considering that unit supposedly rolled when it derailed, I would have thought that was the end of the line for that particular Sprinter.
Only one end of #627 was damaged when it struck the piece of construction equipment. I'm shocked that its frame was wrecked!
Ben


Oh it rolled alright. The 601 is gutted the same way the 627 is, parked back to back in the back shop in wilmington so I really dont think they are going anywhere but to bits. You are going to have a real hard time getting any of the engineers to operate that 601 anyhow if they were to rebuild it.
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby USRailFan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:41 am

ApproachMedium wrote:
liftedjeep wrote:
amtrakhogger wrote:I would think Amtrak may only need one shell and or frame for the 627 since the 601 is reportedly repairable (not needing a new frame or carbody.)


#601 is repairable?? Considering that unit supposedly rolled when it derailed, I would have thought that was the end of the line for that particular Sprinter.
Only one end of #627 was damaged when it struck the piece of construction equipment. I'm shocked that its frame was wrecked!
Ben


Oh it rolled alright. The 601 is gutted the same way the 627 is, parked back to back in the back shop in wilmington so I really dont think they are going anywhere but to bits. You are going to have a real hard time getting any of the engineers to operate that 601 anyhow if they were to rebuild it.


Why would it be any different operating 601 than operating some of the Genesis units that have been in wrecks and heavily repaired?
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:09 am

Betcha there are Mechanical Department factions happy to have them gone - nice supply of spare parts on the cheap. :-D

Of course, if Amtrak Responsibility Accounting is so sophisticated nowadays that the using ResLocs are charged with the cost of used parts and the Fixed Assets are credited with same, well then "it's all bets off".
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby ApproachMedium » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:37 pm

USRailFan wrote:
ApproachMedium wrote:
liftedjeep wrote:
amtrakhogger wrote:I would think Amtrak may only need one shell and or frame for the 627 since the 601 is reportedly repairable (not needing a new frame or carbody.)


#601 is repairable?? Considering that unit supposedly rolled when it derailed, I would have thought that was the end of the line for that particular Sprinter.
Only one end of #627 was damaged when it struck the piece of construction equipment. I'm shocked that its frame was wrecked!
Ben


Oh it rolled alright. The 601 is gutted the same way the 627 is, parked back to back in the back shop in wilmington so I really dont think they are going anywhere but to bits. You are going to have a real hard time getting any of the engineers to operate that 601 anyhow if they were to rebuild it.


Why would it be any different operating 601 than operating some of the Genesis units that have been in wrecks and heavily repaired?


Do I really need to explain that?
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby BandA » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:21 pm

are people that superstitious?
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Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Testing, Developments, & Sightings

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:40 pm

BandA wrote:are people that superstitious?


It's far more about public relations than superstitious crews. 601 was involved in the most heavily-publicized fatal passenger train accident in recent memory. With all the demand the NE Regionals carry, some customers are going to find it distasteful if a 'new' 601 is out there hauling their train. It doesn't matter if that's a small minority...because projected against NEC ridership over the minimum 25-year lifespan of the locomotive the customer service complaint line is going to get rung up enough for it to be a constant nag they occasionally have to answer to in public statements. It costs nothing to steer clear of any potential blowback by painting a "671" on the replacement unit instead. Nobody except the most anal-retentive of railfans will ever notice a single numbering discontinuity in the Sprinter series...but a lot of passengers will vividly remember what happened that awful night in Philly if they see a new 601 pull up to their stop.
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