Viewliner II Delivery/Production

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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby David Benton » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:41 am

CAF delivered New Zealand's EMU's ontime, and with no major issues, pretty good since it was aground up new design ,
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Tadman » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:01 am

gaspeamtrak wrote:Caf seems to have got the "Caledonian Sleeper order right???
These cars were ordered about two years ago roughly ?
There are 4 sets of equipment.Two for the "Highland Sleeper" and two for the "Lowland Sleeper. 16 cars each is the max length for "Euston Station " in London.
16 cars x 4 = 64 cars + 11 spares.
Each train consist of 12 sleepers, 2 coaches and two lounges.
They were supposed two come out in the fall of 2018 roughly but are delayed till about May 2019 I think ?
Not to shabby??? :wink:


This is my understanding. 75 cars, a mixture of lounge, seated coach, and sleeper. Delayed from November '18 to May '19, so six months. That said, there have been test trains in the UK since late last year running around, and further deliveries of stock are occurring. It's not been a black hole to say the least. And Serco/CS have been spreading the word via social media about the arrivals and delays, it's all been a fairly public affair. No finger pointing, just continual updates about the status of the order.

I did a round trip to Aberdeen two years ago and enjoyed it. The MKIII sleepers are from 1975, about Amfleet age. The MkII coaches are from 1965, so a bit older. They were all in decent shape - no rattles or equipment problems. The accommodations were very tight in sleeper as the Brit clearances are much tighter, like that of a US subway system. The compartments had two beds transverse like an Amtrak bedroom but did not fold out to a couch/chairs, it was beds all day. Recently a lineup of the worst performers was sent to the scrappers in anticipation of the new cars entering service.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby electricron » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:06 am

CAF cars delivered elsewhere in the world were not built in the United States, specifically not in the State of New York. Does anything get built within the State of New York "on time and under budget" anymore?
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby gokeefe » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:46 am

Yes (or very close to it) ... The Avelia Liberty trainsets.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby electricron » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:16 pm

gokeefe wrote:Yes (or very close to it) ... The Avelia Liberty trainsets.

Maybe, or maybe not? Has one of them been built yet?
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby mcgrath618 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:23 pm

electricron wrote:
gokeefe wrote:Yes (or very close to it) ... The Avelia Liberty trainsets.

Maybe, or maybe not? Has one of them been built yet?

Apparently a prototype has been built and will begin testing this year.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby gokeefe » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:30 pm

electricron wrote:
gokeefe wrote:Yes (or very close to it) ... The Avelia Liberty trainsets.

Maybe, or maybe not?


The last notes I saw Alstom was nervous about a single 90 day potential slip in the production schedule for the entire program. Gives a whole new meaning to "the trains run on time".
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby mtuandrew » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:15 pm

When comparing the Avelia Liberty to the Viewliner II fleet, keep in mind that Amtrak projects V-IIs to lose or break even at best, but expects the Avelias to be their major breadwinner. Seems to me that Amtrak may have directed CAF to mosey and Alstom to sprint?

I do agree though, a further CAF fleet renewal order would unburden Amtrak of needing AmCafe IIs.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby gokeefe » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:42 pm

That only makes sense if you assume that Amtrak wouldn't realize savings in maintenance costs by taking some of the original Viewliners out of service.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby mtuandrew » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:08 pm

gokeefe wrote:That only makes sense if you assume that Amtrak wouldn't realize savings in maintenance costs by taking some of the original Viewliners out of service.

That isn’t in the cards right now, is it? I thought they intended to keep all the V-Is in service, gradually building the toilets out of their roomettes as they rebuild the earlier cars to V-II standards.

And I forgot to clarify earlier, I mean building V-II cafes specifically to replace the Amfleet II cafes.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby gokeefe » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:24 am

It's unclear at the moment. Given what's being done with the diners I'm having a hard time imagining a major service expansion (which I certainly believed would be the case in the past). Either way I doubt Amtrak told them to slow down.

The good news is that they are coming at all. I would like to believe that they will all go in to revenue service while the original Viewliners are renewed.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby hs3730 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:14 pm

The only sleeper expansion I expected was more for the existing trains. The Meteor would get 2 more (8 total), crescent/star/LSL get one each (11 total), possibly restore one to 66/67 (2), and that would be the end of it. Maybe a daily cardinal instead of an additional sleeper for that route (2). That accounts for 23 of them allowing for 2 added spares to the pool.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Greg Moore » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:44 pm

hs3730 wrote:The only sleeper expansion I expected was more for the existing trains. The Meteor would get 2 more (8 total), crescent/star/LSL get one each (11 total), possibly restore one to 66/67 (2), and that would be the end of it. Maybe a daily cardinal instead of an additional sleeper for that route (2). That accounts for 23 of them allowing for 2 added spares to the pool.

I think you're right. Which is why I advocate for the 70 car option being exercised. That would allow for actual expansion.

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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby Arlington » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:09 pm

gokeefe wrote:Given what's being done with the diners I'm having a hard time imagining a major service expansion

I'd say quite the opposite. What's happening with diners (being downgraded to cafes) makes it easier to add sleepers.

Wherever the 1-to-1 tether has been cut between selling a sleeper and mandating a "diner sitting seat + laboriously-cooked meal," Amtrak can now add sleepers wherever people's primary reason for travel overnight is, well, sleeping (and where the cost comparison isn't flying, but rather that "big city" hotels are expensive)

I think that means (assuming I'm remembering which ones have ditched their diner promise)
Short, big-city-centric trips: 66/67, LSL, Capitol Limited,
Long price-sensitive trips: Cardinal & Silver Star

As long as the Crescent can't add/drop at ATL and has to haul everything through the ATL-NOL wilderness, I can't see it getting more sleepers.
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Re: Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Postby ApproachMedium » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:40 pm

Currently the plan is accept new sleepers, and they will debut on train 91 which will be the first long haul to hit 125mph with sleepers. After that, i dont know. The old sleepers are tested etc for 125 but waiting on FRA red tape to clear for full certification. This would include all of the legacy view cars including the American View, and the 8400.
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