Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, gprimr1, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby David Benton » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:45 pm

Seems to me to be even more reaon to move away from stainless . there would be plenty of Local ability ot weld the bodies in aliminuim.
I though Amtrak would be looking to the future , and i would think the future is aliminuim and composite material s , not stainless .
Moderator worldwide railfan , Rail travel & trip reports
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
User avatar
David Benton
 
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby mtuandrew » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:02 pm

David Benton wrote:Seems to me to be even more reaon to move away from stainless . there would be plenty of Local ability ot weld the bodies in aliminuim.
I though Amtrak would be looking to the future , and i would think the future is aliminuim and composite material s , not stainless .

For the current system, a stainless steel body is absolutely the best option. Amtrak's passenger cars aren't really limited by weight, the FRA has high crush standards with no alternate crumple zone standard, and Amtrak can't count on politicians fully funding their maintenance obligations on a less-durable car (nor on being allowed to purchase new cars.) Besides, Amtrak often assigns two or more locomotives per train as it is, regardless of the weight of the train.

If/when Amtrak becomes a true HSR provider beyond the NEC, with FRA-alternate-compliant cars and a guaranteed large funding source for new equipment, aluminum and composites may possibly be the better option.
User avatar
mtuandrew
 
Posts: 4091
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am
Location: the Manassas Gap Independent Line

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby phillytrainman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:57 am

I have to agree with the previous writer. There is no beeter material for passenger rail cars than stainless steel. Edward G. Budd proved that over 70 years ago. Aluminum dos not hold up over time and doesn't fair well in catastrophic accidents. Washington Metro's fleet are aluminum and those cars peel open every time there is a collision. Aluminum cab cars (Comets) don't perform well either as history has shown. When Amtrak came into being and started to inventory the cars from the railroads, one of the 4 criteria was the material. Stainless was preferred, while aluminum and Cor-Ten steel casrs were shunned. Because stainless steel has a higher density than carbon steel, it is stronger than regular carbon steel and this allows for thinner gauges of the material to be used for carbody structure thereby reducing overall weight when applied to train building. Hence the first streamliners were termed "lightweights." Stainless steel is the ideal alloy and it is quite resistant to corrosion and has a high potential whereas mild carbon steels are very active metals with lower potential and therefore prone to this activity. As Amtrak has proven by running its Heritage cars for so long, a stainless steel car has a virtually unlimited life span, although officially cars have a useful life of 30 years. I also agree that Amtrak orders will always be sporadic based on funding. No car builder will ever survive waiting on Amtrak orders. Because Amtrak has done so well with maintaining older equipment and keeping them in service, this also contributes to long gaps between orders. However, the maintenance in the equation is changing as many experienced personnel are retiring as they hit their 25-35 year marks. Exciting times are ahead.
phillytrainman
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:08 am

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby Pacific 2-3-1 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:11 pm

A common standard for the "roof profile" and "belt rail" height for the so-called lightweight streamlined equipment was agreed upon c. 1939 by the three dominant car builders ACF, Budd and Pullman.

All that went out the window when the Metroliner-shell-based Amfleets were ordered with roof heights designed originally to accommodate pantographs.

Later this fleet was supplemented with the "off the shelf" Horizon car order.

And then came Acela Express cars which were similar in design and height to the Canadian LRC.

I wonder if we'll ever see an Eastern Amtrak low-level coach (corridor, intermediate or long distance) that doesn't have a roof height as low as the Amfleet and Horizon cars?
Pacific 2-3-1
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby phillytrainman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:20 pm

The original Amfleet I specification stated a maximum height of 12 feet 8 inches. The Amfleet replacements will specify a maximum height of 14 feet 6 inches - keeping in mind that Acela-type roof air conditioning units will probably be applied, so carbody shell roof will be someshat lower.
phillytrainman
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:08 am

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:33 pm

From what I was told the cars will look more like the Acela cars, they have Viewliner shape but two room mounted AC sets and have newer bigger windows to comply with stretcher evacuation rules.
there may not be a second row of windows as on original viewliner shells. the trucks will have both tread and disk brakes (3 per axle)
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21202
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby phillytrainman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:59 pm

Yes, Acela-like contours with roof-mount HVAC units.
phillytrainman
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:08 am

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby phillytrainman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:01 pm

My previous posts referred to Amfleet replacements. Viewliner IIs will have 2 rows of windows as on Viewliner Is.
phillytrainman
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:08 am

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby Matt Johnson » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:06 pm

The Acela coaches are just about perfect, imo. I like their appearance, interior layout, window size, restrooms, etc. I certainly wouldn't mind if future coaches are patterned after the Acela cars!
User avatar
Matt Johnson
 
Posts: 3822
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:57 pm
Location: Hazlet, NJ

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby D.Carleton » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:15 pm

I should think that one or both of the original sleepers will now be shipped to Elmira for study and examination. Where are they now?
D.Carleton
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:19 pm
Location: NY or FL, depending on what mood I'm in...

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby Matt Johnson » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:29 pm

D.Carleton wrote:I should think that one or both of the original sleepers will now be shipped to Elmira for study and examination. Where are they now?


One of them, 62091, appears to be in storage at Beech Grove.

http://inrd.gotdns.com/amtkbg/amtk62091.jpg
User avatar
Matt Johnson
 
Posts: 3822
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:57 pm
Location: Hazlet, NJ

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby phillytrainman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:43 pm

Yes, and the other sleeper prototype is behind the Wilington shops office building, hidden from normal viewing along NEC.
phillytrainman
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:08 am

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby Pacific 2-3-1 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:11 pm

David Benton wrote:Seems to me to be even more reaon to move away from stainless . there would be plenty of Local ability ot weld the bodies in aliminuim.
I though Amtrak would be looking to the future , and i would think the future is aliminuim and composite material s , not stainless .


For the PRESENT, stainless steel seems to be the material of choice for North American rapid transit/subway trains as well as suburban commuter trains.

Most of the cities that once had aluminum (aluminium) rapid transit cars are replacing them with sturdy stainless steel as fast as they can -- including Washington, DC METRO.
Pacific 2-3-1
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby David Benton » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:26 pm

i believe the comet / horizions were aliminuim .
Nz is going for stainless in its commuter cars too . they spend their whole life less than 5 miles from the sea .
any form of supposedly high speed train , i dont know for sure but i dont think they would use stainless .
Moderator worldwide railfan , Rail travel & trip reports
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
User avatar
David Benton
 
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: The New "Red Lion": Elmira Heights, NY?

Postby Jersey_Mike » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:02 am

Yes, and the other sleeper prototype is behind the Wilington shops office building, hidden from normal viewing along NEC.


Why doesn't Amtrak do like they did with the diner and bring those back to active service as well?
Jersey_Mike
 
Posts: 4689
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:39 am
Location: CHARLES aka B&P JCT MP 95.9

PreviousNext

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gokeefe and 6 guests