Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Line)

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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Allouette » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:35 pm

Boston to Greenfield on the ex-B&M is 105 miles of twists and turns. The fastest B&M schedules ran 2:15, with most running 2:40 or more. The route via Springfield is 134 miles of relatively straight running. The Lake Shore gets a padded 2:30 for the 98 miles Boston to Springfield (NYC did 2:15 or more), and the Vermonter gets a slightly padded hour for the 36 miles (Amtrak TT shows 40 for some reason) from Springfield to Greenfield, about the same as B&M did with 55MPH MAS on 11 of the 36 miles, 40MPH or less on the rest. With completion of the Conn River upgrades and some relatively minor upgrades to the B&A it should be possible to do Boston-Springfield-Greenfield in under 3 hours, serving a massively larger population.
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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby gokeefe » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:24 pm

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:The train gets its seat at the table amongst the portfolio of travel options from being able to promise (with the specced NNEIRI upgrades) relative schedule certainty and travel time consistency on any schedule slot of the day, something you will never get again with the express buses. That matters the world for a slice of the market.


I completely agree. Increased congestion also appears to be impacting modal choice along the Portland - Boston corridor where the Downeaster continues to see record ridership despite historically low gas prices.
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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Jehochman » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:23 pm

One overpass on the Pike (I-90) is being rebuilt. I just got an email warning to expect 40 minute delays in both directions for several weeks. This is why buses and cars into Boston stink. It is daft not to have inland service parallel to the always congested Pike. Often there is bad traffic between Worcester and I-84 and it just gets worse closer in. Plenty of those drivers could be lured the train, and maybe traffic wouldn't be quite so bad for the rest.
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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby mtuandrew » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:56 pm

Getting a little afield of the Vermonter except as a possible connection, do any of you feel there would be demand for BOS-SPG-NHV Shuttles?
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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby ThirdRail7 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:16 am

A trip of that length could hardly be called a shuttle and I still don't think the demand will appear unless you fork over millions to CSX. If you're going to do that, you may as well run a through train from WAS/PHL or NYP.
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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby east point » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:02 am

It appears that getting any more trains on MNRR in CT is going to wait for CT to replace all the Draw bridges. For example the Walk bridge replacement of the 4 track swing bridge with 2 - 2 track lift bridges will cause ~ 1 year of less than 4 tracks in service there. Sometime 3 tracks and sometimes just 2 tracks in service. Those bridges will even with just one bridge under construction for replacement at a time become choke points for best case 10 years into the future.
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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Jehochman » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:11 pm

mtuandrew wrote:Getting a little afield of the Vermonter except as a possible connection, do any of you feel there would be demand for BOS-SPG-NHV Shuttles?


Yes. Anybody in Worcester, Springfield or Hartford who wants to go to Boston would use this train. Anybody in Worcester needs this train to get to New York or beyond. Worcester is New England's second largest city. The Inland trains are part of the NNEIRI study which aims to link Boston, Montreal and New Haven by way of Springfield.
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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby BandA » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:56 pm

The I90 NYS Thruway + Ma$$ Pike between Albany & Springfield is still relatively uncongested. And according to other posts, the tracks over the Berkshires cannot be made time competitive with conventional train technology. So SPG becomes the hub with through-running Vermonters, one-a-day Late-for-sure Ltd, ALB-SPG buses, NHHS CR, BOS-SPG CR
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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Dick H » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:48 pm

I rode the Vermonter round trip on August 10th from BLF to SPG to get the "new" mileage between East Northfield MA and Springfield MA. The passenger count leaving the NECR southbound was 97 and entering the NECR northbound was 147. There appeared to be a lengthy slow order for a mile or so leaving Bellows Falls and a 10MPH slow order over a bridge about a mile south of Brattleboro. There had been reports some time ago that the NECR/PAR interlocking at East Northfield had been upgraded to passenger speeds. However, the travel through that switch was 10MPH in both directions. Travel over the long trestle at Deerfield was also at 10 MPH.

Arrival of Train #55 at SPG was 24 minutes late, but we were held for 12 minutes or so out of Springfield. Departure of Train #56 from Springfield was 17 minutes late and 21 minutes late into Bellows Falls. Earlier, #55 was 8 minutes late out of Bellows Falls. Crew was cordial and professional including advising individual passengers of which door (s) would be opened for detraining.
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Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Train60 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:52 am

Thanks for the report.
I'm surprised to hear that there's still a long term slow order on the bridge over the Deerfield River. The ETT that was issued by Pan Am when Amtrak was rerouted onto the Conn River (on 12/28/2014) shows a passenger speed of 30 mph. I've heard, but have not confirmed, that there is some very slow running through the City of Holyoke and for about 2 miles just north of the CSX diamond.
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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby travelrobb » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:14 pm

On the Vermonter now heading north from Springfield. We're just crawling -- all the way through Holyoke and only moving slightly faster as we approach Northampton. What exactly was improved here? And what prevents trains from reaching, I don't know, 60 mph on this stretch?

Apologies if this has been covered in the previous 44 pages of this thread...

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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby Dick H » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:50 pm

Per Amtrak Status, #54 was 23 minutes late leaving Springfield and 20 minutes late leaving Northhampton, which would seem to indicate that the slow running mentioned is normal track speed in that area. #54 actually gained three minutes.
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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby shadyjay » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:09 pm

The southbound, 57, took quite the hit today, arriving into SPG nearly an hour late (standard arrival as of late has been 20-30 minutes). Because of the (largely) single-track Conn River Line north of SPG, the NB had to wait until the SB arrived.
As for why it crawled, I'm not sure. I'll be traveling the route next weekend so I can see what's up then.
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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby travelrobb » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:42 am

Yes -- the timetable indicates an average speed of 30 mph for ten miles of what seemed to be relatively straight track between Springfield and Holyoke, and 44 mph form Holyoke to Northampton. But that strikes me as slow.
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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:57 am

I have to agree on that. Any intercity train should not be traveling that slow, especially on a straight track that is capable of faster speeds.
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