Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Line)

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, gprimr1, Amtrak67 of America, Tadman

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Allouette » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:35 pm

Boston to Greenfield on the ex-B&M is 105 miles of twists and turns. The fastest B&M schedules ran 2:15, with most running 2:40 or more. The route via Springfield is 134 miles of relatively straight running. The Lake Shore gets a padded 2:30 for the 98 miles Boston to Springfield (NYC did 2:15 or more), and the Vermonter gets a slightly padded hour for the 36 miles (Amtrak TT shows 40 for some reason) from Springfield to Greenfield, about the same as B&M did with 55MPH MAS on 11 of the 36 miles, 40MPH or less on the rest. With completion of the Conn River upgrades and some relatively minor upgrades to the B&A it should be possible to do Boston-Springfield-Greenfield in under 3 hours, serving a massively larger population.
Allouette
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:07 am
Location: Plainfield NH

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby gokeefe » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:24 pm

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:The train gets its seat at the table amongst the portfolio of travel options from being able to promise (with the specced NNEIRI upgrades) relative schedule certainty and travel time consistency on any schedule slot of the day, something you will never get again with the express buses. That matters the world for a slice of the market.


I completely agree. Increased congestion also appears to be impacting modal choice along the Portland - Boston corridor where the Downeaster continues to see record ridership despite historically low gas prices.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 9691
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Jehochman » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:23 pm

One overpass on the Pike (I-90) is being rebuilt. I just got an email warning to expect 40 minute delays in both directions for several weeks. This is why buses and cars into Boston stink. It is daft not to have inland service parallel to the always congested Pike. Often there is bad traffic between Worcester and I-84 and it just gets worse closer in. Plenty of those drivers could be lured the train, and maybe traffic wouldn't be quite so bad for the rest.
Jehochman
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:39 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby mtuandrew » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:56 pm

Getting a little afield of the Vermonter except as a possible connection, do any of you feel there would be demand for BOS-SPG-NHV Shuttles?
User avatar
mtuandrew
 
Posts: 4009
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:59 am
Location: the Manassas Gap Independent Line

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby ThirdRail7 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:16 am

mtuandrew wrote:Getting a little afield of the Vermonter except as a possible connection, do any of you feel there would be demand for BOS-SPG-NHV Shuttles?


A trip of that length could hardly be called a shuttle and I still don't think the demand will appear unless you fork over millions to CSX. If you're going to do that, you may as well run a through train from WAS/PHL or NYP.
I want my road foreman!
ThirdRail7
 
Posts: 3968
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:07 pm

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby east point » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:02 am

It appears that getting any more trains on MNRR in CT is going to wait for CT to replace all the Draw bridges. For example the Walk bridge replacement of the 4 track swing bridge with 2 - 2 track lift bridges will cause ~ 1 year of less than 4 tracks in service there. Sometime 3 tracks and sometimes just 2 tracks in service. Those bridges will even with just one bridge under construction for replacement at a time become choke points for best case 10 years into the future.
east point
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:50 pm

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Jehochman » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:11 pm

mtuandrew wrote:Getting a little afield of the Vermonter except as a possible connection, do any of you feel there would be demand for BOS-SPG-NHV Shuttles?


Yes. Anybody in Worcester, Springfield or Hartford who wants to go to Boston would use this train. Anybody in Worcester needs this train to get to New York or beyond. Worcester is New England's second largest city. The Inland trains are part of the NNEIRI study which aims to link Boston, Montreal and New Haven by way of Springfield.
Jehochman
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:39 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby BandA » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:56 pm

The I90 NYS Thruway + Ma$$ Pike between Albany & Springfield is still relatively uncongested. And according to other posts, the tracks over the Berkshires cannot be made time competitive with conventional train technology. So SPG becomes the hub with through-running Vermonters, one-a-day Late-for-sure Ltd, ALB-SPG buses, NHHS CR, BOS-SPG CR
User avatar
BandA
 
Posts: 1825
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:47 am

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Dick H » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:48 pm

I rode the Vermonter round trip on August 10th from BLF to SPG to get the "new" mileage between East Northfield MA and Springfield MA. The passenger count leaving the NECR southbound was 97 and entering the NECR northbound was 147. There appeared to be a lengthy slow order for a mile or so leaving Bellows Falls and a 10MPH slow order over a bridge about a mile south of Brattleboro. There had been reports some time ago that the NECR/PAR interlocking at East Northfield had been upgraded to passenger speeds. However, the travel through that switch was 10MPH in both directions. Travel over the long trestle at Deerfield was also at 10 MPH.

Arrival of Train #55 at SPG was 24 minutes late, but we were held for 12 minutes or so out of Springfield. Departure of Train #56 from Springfield was 17 minutes late and 21 minutes late into Bellows Falls. Earlier, #55 was 8 minutes late out of Bellows Falls. Crew was cordial and professional including advising individual passengers of which door (s) would be opened for detraining.
Dick H
 
Posts: 3029
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:55 pm
Location: Dover, NH

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby Train60 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:52 am

Thanks for the report.
I'm surprised to hear that there's still a long term slow order on the bridge over the Deerfield River. The ETT that was issued by Pan Am when Amtrak was rerouted onto the Conn River (on 12/28/2014) shows a passenger speed of 30 mph. I've heard, but have not confirmed, that there is some very slow running through the City of Holyoke and for about 2 miles just north of the CSX diamond.
Train60
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:31 pm
Location: New England

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby shadyjay » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:01 pm

Did a roundtrip on the Vermonter this past weekend, as part of my trip to ride the Amtrak Autumn Express. Southbound was delayed for a while, as follows: several slow orders after leaving Waterbury, SB, more so than usual. Then more slow orders from Montpelier to White River Jct, mostly due to the rock ledges. I'm not sure what's being done about this, but I did notice what looked like some rock ledge excavation at one point or another. I know the slow orders were as a result of the derailment a couple years ago, but are the slow orders something we're going to have to live with? It's a bummer to be going along at 59 MPH then slow down to 10 MPH then back up to speed, then slow down again.

South of WRJ to Windsor was mostly at speed, except one or two slow spots.

The NH side of the "Conn River" was in great shape, hitting 79 mph for several sections.

Between Bellows Falls and Brattleboro, we were at 30 mph for a good portion of it, per an announcement due to tie replacement. We did hit 59 or 79 mph in one section briefly, then back down to 30.

The connection from the NECR to PAS at East Northfield was definitely faster than my trip on the route last Christmas. Back then it was 10. I didn't do a speed check over it this time, though.

The Mass. portion of the Conn River we moved along at a descent clip, again hitting 79 mph mostly between Greenfield and Northampton. Some sections between Holyoke and Springfield we also were up to (at least) 50 or so but slowed down around the I-91 overpass.

No delays crossing CSX at all. Southbound, we didn't stop until we hit the reverse direction point by the old mail facility. And we were off the advertised, too. Good job, CSX!

Disclaimer: speeds indicated above were from my phone's speedometer app and are approximate)

Still not sure what's going on around Holyoke station where there are still signals turned sideways and new track construction that hasn't been completed. There's also something going on around Bernardston (2nd track?) and stacks of ties laid out between Northampton and Deerfield. Is a 2nd track reactivation planned for somewhere towards Deerfield? Looks like there was some work on the old siding there. Finally, Springfield station has a new track north of CSX Track 1 (future Track 3 or 5?) that is not connected to the main. There's also open platform canopies and the old stairways/elevators removed on two of the platforms. I'm not sure why the existing stairways/elevators couldn't be saved and just "stepped up" to meet the future high level platform height.
User avatar
shadyjay
 
Posts: 1972
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:08 pm
Location: Warren, VT

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby gokeefe » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:09 pm

shadyjay wrote:I'm not sure why the existing stairways/elevators couldn't be saved and just "stepped up" to meet the future high level platform height.


Probably because they no longer met code.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 9691
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby CVRA7 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:18 am

The temporary "track 3" at the Springfield Union Station was a "shoefly" track used during rehab construction over the pedestrian subway downstairs. They've had water leakage problems for years from over the subway, so there was a lot of excavation in the area to hopefully repair this problem.
CVRA7
 
Posts: 663
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Along the Canal Line

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby sullysullinburg » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:58 am

Have they ever though (or previously had) a baggage car on this route? I feel like it could increase ridership espically in the winter with people wanting to bring their skis and snowboards.
Please check out my Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClziKJ ... 2M7jJlSZsw
sullysullinburg
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:32 am

Re: Amtrak Vermonter (Montreal Greenfield Boston CT River Li

Postby gokeefe » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:23 am

sullysullinburg wrote:Have they ever though (or previously had) a baggage car on this route? I feel like it could increase ridership espically in the winter with people wanting to bring their skis and snowboards.


There was at one time and it even had its own special Vermonter vinyl decal.
gokeefe
User avatar
gokeefe
 
Posts: 9691
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

PreviousNext

Return to Amtrak

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests