Future of U.S. Rail

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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby SRich » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:29 am

talltim wrote:Some US freights run at considerably more than 30mph now


Indeed, some, but not the most. On the NEC freight trains must speed up, but in the rest of the US speeds are low.
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby talltim » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:35 am

Disagree. I'm not sure that the NE Corridor actually has a lot of fast freight.
There are a lot of slow freights, but on the trunk routes there are a lot of fast ones.
Try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xznP1Sfx0U
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby ExCon90 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:48 pm

Indeed, that's where the fast running is done--on heavy-duty main lines, not the NEC.
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby SouthernRailway » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:20 pm

SRich wrote:The U.S. is an nice country, but is far way behind with rail in compare of the rest of the world(some small country's not included). Freight Rail own many miles of track in low speed quality. Almost everything is diesel powered.
If we compare it to other railroads, where the infrastructure is owned by the government. So why not improve the U.S. railways.

It may be different then aspected but lets discus it:

A few change can improve the railways of the U.S.:

Bring ALL the railroads under (state or) federal control and ownership.
Then create an infrastructuur company who controls the nations train movement and maintenance of it's tracks.
Improve every railway to an minimal speed of 79 m/h.
One signal system (Perhaps CCS) with PTC installed.
Start with Electrifying the bussiest corridors with 25 kV~, and make plans to electrifying the complete nation, but make it possible that double/tripple stack can run under overhead wires.

Raise the fuel tax on everything so it would be cheap to run electric.
The users of the track pay's compensation so the infra company can keep the tracks and system in a state of good repair

Just wondering how you think about this ???? :-D


Bad idea based on false premises.

Compared to continental European railroads at least:

US freight railroads: Profitable
Continental European freight railroads: Largely unprofitable

US freight railroads: Low cost per ton-mile
Continental European freight railroads: High cost per ton-mile (relatively)

US freight railroads: Relatively high market share
Continental European freight railroads: Relatively low market share

European railroads are built to haul passengers, not freight. US railroads are built to haul freight, not passengers. Do we want a freight version of Amtrak in the US: no innovation, high-cost, little growth? No.
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:52 pm

Thank you, Mr. SRY, for your thoughts that wholly concur with mine. I say that from having been overseas.in each of the past two years and am set to go again this August (music at the Salzburg Festival is my primary goal).

I can only reiterate that freight traffic "over there" operates at the sufferance of passenger. European rail managers (I know so first hand when seated next to a DB manager who spoke better English than do I) who come "over here" are astounded at the size of our freight trains and their handling of commodities such as agriculture and coal that is moved over there by their more extensive waterways, within the EU. Yes, their rivers are also North-South, but they have three of such (Rhine, Elbe, Danube) compared with our one (Ol' Man River).
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby SouthernRailway » Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:04 pm

SRich wrote:
[Freight trains] a running from China to Netherlands (Rotterdam) and back in just 2 days with electrics.


Please provide a source for that statement. Everything that I've seen suggests much longer trip times of around 16 days in each direction. I look forward to being shown that I'm wrong.
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:26 am

correct travel time for China/Nederland cargo shuttle is 12/13 days.
English link : http://www.logistics.dbschenker.nl/log- ... china.html
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby eustis22 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:57 pm

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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby FLRailFan1 » Sun May 01, 2016 11:11 am

SRich wrote:The U.S. is an nice country, but is far way behind with rail in compare of the rest of the world(some small country's not included). Freight Rail own many miles of track in low speed quality. Almost everything is diesel powered.
If we compare it to other railroads, where the infrastructure is owned by the government. So why not improve the U.S. railways.

It may be different then aspected but lets discus it:

A few change can improve the railways of the U.S.:

Bring ALL the railroads under (state or) federal control and ownership.
Then create an infrastructuur company who controls the nations train movement and maintenance of it's tracks.
Improve every railway to an minimal speed of 79 m/h.
One signal system (Perhaps CCS) with PTC installed.
Start with Electrifying the bussiest corridors with 25 kV~, and make plans to electrifying the complete nation, but make it possible that double/tripple stack can run under overhead wires.

Raise the fuel tax on everything so it would be cheap to run electric.
The users of the track pay's compensation so the infra company can keep the tracks and system in a state of good repair

Just wondering how you think about this ???? :-D


Putting all railroads under the federal government is socialism, which as a libertarian, I highly disagree with. (You must be a Bernie supporter). Obama socialized medical care, and my health care WENT UP and I DIDN'T KEEP MY DOCTOR. Now, why would I want the fed run trains? If any Liberal (except Warren Buffett) ran a railroad, they would deliver a refrigerator car to a C&D plant and the C&D car to the frozen food plant. 😊
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby SRich » Tue May 03, 2016 11:59 pm

FLRailFan1 wrote:
SRich wrote:...


Putting all railroads under the federal government is socialism, which as a libertarian, I highly disagree with. (You must be a Bernie supporter). Obama socialized medical care, and my health care WENT UP and I DIDN'T KEEP MY DOCTOR. Now, why would I want the fed run trains? If any Liberal (except Warren Buffett) ran a railroad, they would deliver a refrigerator car to a C&D plant and the C&D car to the frozen food plant. 😊


:-D

I am from outside U.S.
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Wed May 04, 2016 5:33 pm

SRich wrote:I am from outside U.S.


I sensed you are from overseas, Mr. Rich, as your proposal is in essence what exists in much of Europe.

I've learened, from having been over a few times recently, that the German system has a number of private sector operators, most infamously noted, Meridian as well as Westbahn in Austria. I remarked to a German rail manager this was the exact opposite as in The States where passenger trains are operated by a Federal and quite a number of regional agencies over tracks (some exceptions) owned by private sector railway companies (we should note that the second largest railroad over here, the BNSF, has adopted, the accepted overseas term, Railway, as part of their corporate and trade name).

So I guess it could be said, I understand and respect "where you are coming from". However, even though we avoid talking politics here unless they directly relate to a rail issue, Mr. FLFan1 chose to share his political views, and there are many, largely residing in areas away from population centers, who hold like views.
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby necrails » Sat May 07, 2016 11:25 am

I believe this is a passenger rail discussion so I will limit my comments to that topic. There are regions that should have a single entity running operations. The geographical region between Boston and DC has the MBTA, Shore Line East, Metro North, LIRR, NJ transit, SEPTA, MARC, VRE and Amtrak linking the region. A single heavy rail company should serve the greater Bo-Was metro area. Separate labor agreements, different equipment, probably some different operating rules and the lack of run through in NYC makes rail a choice that is less desirable for that city and the surrounding locals. The ability to travel between the various states on single companies equipment will ultimately make schedules more appealing and perhaps uncover untapped markets. I think that part of the country would be better served with a common RR managed privately with govt assistance. The same holds true in California. That entire State could potentially benefit with a single company running the entire State. There are probably several other regions of the country that would also benefit. I think Amtrak in its current form needs to dissolve. Long distance train travel should be given over to private companies or allowed to fade away. It makes no economic sense to maintain once a day train travel when other modes of transportation (air, auto, bus) can carry out that function. As the population pattern shifts back towards metro areas, I think the planners need to identify how to provide transportation within and between these regions using a rail network. Anything under 500 miles should be in contention. Beyond that, the trip is just too long to make rail appealing.
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby Engineer Spike » Tue May 10, 2016 3:44 pm

The US only got into the railroad business where it was in an unsolvable failure. Amtrak picked up passenger service, when the private industry was loosing out, due to the improved roads, and airlines.

The eastern debacle, due to shifting industry led to Conrail. Mr. Norman would likely point out the loans given to roads like Rock Island, and Milwaukee, which were strapped, vs. outright purchase. Every effort was made to keep these roads private.

Canada is much more socialistic than the US. Their railroads operate similarly to American roads. CN was a bailout of failed systems. Look at the pork which CN was saddled with, before privatization. Now that it can set policy, on a for profit basis, is now a premiere system, in Canada, and the US.

Sometimes business requires abandoning some branch. If it was government run, it would likely be subsidized. Someone needs to pay for it. Higher taxes would be the solution. While in logistics class at university, we visited a local factory. It was Milton Bradley, the board game maker. Their plant had been along the former New Haven Armory Branch, in E. Longmeadow, MA. Since the abandonment, they still had rail access via intermodal. This was a win-win. MB got more frequent main line service. The railroad did not have to repair the line, pay taxes, buy locomotives, and hire crews.

You can argue that even roads are government subsidized. They are for the common good. How far do we take this? Do we maintain a line like the Armory, which only benefits a few?
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby FLRailFan1 » Fri May 20, 2016 7:25 pm

SRich wrote:I am from outside U.S.


Okay, I stand corrected. The USA doesn't need the government to screw up any more industries...
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Re: Future of U.S. Rail

Postby FLRailFan1 » Fri May 20, 2016 7:39 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
SRich wrote:I am from outside U.S.


I sensed you are from overseas, Mr. Rich, as your proposal is in essence what exists in much of Europe.

I've learened, from having been over a few times recently, that the German system has a number of private sector operators, most infamously noted, Meridian as well as Westbahn in Austria. I remarked to a German rail manager this was the exact opposite as in The States where passenger trains are operated by a Federal and quite a number of regional agencies over tracks (some exceptions) owned by private sector railway companies (we should note that the second largest railroad over here, the BNSF, has adopted, the accepted overseas term, Railway, as part of their corporate and trade name).

So I guess it could be said, I understand and respect "where you are coming from". However, even though we avoid talking politics here unless they directly relate to a rail issue, Mr. FLFan1 chose to share his political views, and there are many, largely residing in areas away from population centers, who hold like views.


Mr. Norman, I live in Tampa Florida and we are trying to get HSR, but I'm against it because HSR wont get up to 125, because every 'Hooterville' want a stop, from Tampa International Airport to Orlando Airport, the HSR will stop in downtown Tampa, (10 miles), Plant City (20 miles from Downtown), Lakeland (15 miles from Plant City), Winter Haven (10 miles from Lakeland), Haines City (maybe 20 miles from WH), Kissimmee -Disneyworld (5 miles), Downtown Orlando (10 miles) and then Orlando Airport
(10 miles). Sorry, to me that is NOT HSR...
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