New Jersey Seashore Lines: was CNJ being cleard Woodmansie>N

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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby snavely » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:10 pm

Bluesman, as my father used to say, no one ever went broke understimating the stupidity of the American public.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby ApproachMedium » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:45 pm

We are talking about seniors here that have nothing better to do but worry about things that may change. Of course they will complain about it. I actually met someone today during my yard sale search who told me they ENJOYED the sound of the trains at night, because it helped them sleep.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby Hulka » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:17 am

Here is a look of that area on a RR map from 1887

http://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/HISTORICALM ... _of_NJ.jpg
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby GSC » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:28 am

Once upon a time, the Whitings area was so busy with rail traffic that Pennsy looked to either double track their Phila & Long Branch line, or bypass Whitings and their Tuckerton trackage rights to go to Manahawkin via their own line from Medford.

Fourteen different lines were proposed to go to Manahawkin or Tuckerton.

Whitings was considered a "bottleneck". Interesting "what if" scenarios here.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby rrbluesman » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:02 pm

ApproachMedium wrote:We are talking about seniors here that have nothing better to do but worry about things that may change. Of course they will complain about it. I actually met someone today during my yard sale search who told me they ENJOYED the sound of the trains at night, because it helped them sleep.


I love the sound of a train going by, I find it soothing.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby jrzwalker86 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:52 pm

I'd rather have a railroad next to my house than a freeway. By the way....an updated GP or SD locomotive is actually quieter at idle than many heavy trucks.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby Ken W2KB » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:52 am

rrbluesman wrote:
RailsEast wrote:
wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?


Apparently, there is a rumor circulating in Manchester regarding rail service; these are excerpts from the Manchester Twp. council minutes (albeit not so recent):

9/26/2011 - "Mr. Weiner discussed the rail line that will be going through Whiting. It will run 13 miles from Woodmansee to Lakehurst. It is run by Clayton Block. He said it will have less impact on the infrastructure. It will help Clayton get their product from one location to another. They will be able to use one rail car compared to the four trucks that they would normally use on the road. This may one day lead to a rail line that will have excursions for tourists through the Pine Barrens similar to Cape May."

1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......



If you bought a house that is along or near to railroad tracks, then don't be surprised if one day a train passes by. I find it hard to believe people are that stupid enough to buy a house near to rr tracks and then get upity about the 'noise' produced by the trains.


One would expect so. Last year on the way home from brakeman duty on the BR&W and stopped in a local coffee place, happened to overhear a conversation. Someone was complaining that the realtor never told them that there was a tourist train nearby that blew horns, etc. when they bought their house in the winter when we don't run passenger. The person was contemplating (1) suing the realtor, and (2) starting an action to shut down the railroad. Just venting, I suppose.

Now, wonder what they will say now that 60 is back in passenger service? Steam whistle, exhaust barking, exhaust plume . . . Tickets on sale now at: http://www.flemingtontrain.org/welcomeBack60.html ;-)
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby Hawaiitiki » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:22 pm

RailsEast wrote:
wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?



1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......


Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby Ken W2KB » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:58 pm

Hawaiitiki wrote:
RailsEast wrote:
wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?



1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......


Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.


The comparison is perhaps not proper. CMSL trackage does not have freight service so all costs of inspection, maintenance, etc. must be borne entirely by the passenger operation. Most of those costs for the line under refurbishment will be there and thus paid by the freight service whether passenger runs or not. So the economics are that to the extent that the passenger operation can cover all its variable costs, it can be run, and to the extent it covers any more than its variable costs, it makes economic sense to do so.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby glennk419 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:36 am

Hawaiitiki wrote:
RailsEast wrote:
wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?



1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......


Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.


I thought this was a discussion regarding the reactivation of the CNJ. If you really feel the worthless need to tear into Tony and the CMSL, take it to another thread.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby Ken W2KB » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:33 am

glennk419 wrote:
Hawaiitiki wrote:
RailsEast wrote:
wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?



1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......


Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.


I thought this was a discussion regarding the reactivation of the CNJ. If you really feel the worthless need to tear into Tony and the CMSL, take it to another thread.


Valid observation. The economics of CMSL makes it very difficult to operate a regular schedule of passenger trains, made worse by the setbacks such as the track materials theft. The CNJ line is very much different in that regard, and I look forward to riding a passenger train on it in the foreseeable future. Constructive suggestions as to what the nature of feasible CNJ line passenger service might be would be much more appropriate, e.g., brainstorming on what the general public would patronize. The general public ridership is what makes or breaks a tourist operation.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby blockline4180 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:52 am

Ken W2KB wrote:
glennk419 wrote:
Hawaiitiki wrote:
RailsEast wrote:
wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?



1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......


Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.


I thought this was a discussion regarding the reactivation of the CNJ. If you really feel the worthless need to tear into Tony and the CMSL, take it to another thread.


Valid observation. The economics of CMSL makes it very difficult to operate a regular schedule of passenger trains, made worse by the setbacks such as the track materials theft. The CNJ line is very much different in that regard, and I look forward to riding a passenger train on it in the foreseeable future. Constructive suggestions as to what the nature of feasible CNJ line passenger service might be would be much more appropriate, e.g., brainstorming on what the general public would patronize. The general public ridership is what makes or breaks a tourist operation.


Who would be the operator of this so called new "Tourist operation" up in the Whiting area??? Any ideas??
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby Hawaiitiki » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:25 am

Ken W2KB wrote:
Hawaiitiki wrote:
RailsEast wrote:
wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?



1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......


Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.


The comparison is perhaps not proper. CMSL trackage does not have freight service so all costs of inspection, maintenance, etc. must be borne entirely by the passenger operation. Most of those costs for the line under refurbishment will be there and thus paid by the freight service whether passenger runs or not. So the economics are that to the extent that the passenger operation can cover all its variable costs, it can be run, and to the extent it covers any more than its variable costs, it makes economic sense to do so.


You are correct. I was perhaps a little quick to the gun, perhaps exacerbated with my unrelated frustration with the state of CMSL. I also understand the management of the CMSL can only do so much, but I feel like if anywhere in NJ is ripe for a tourist operation, its Cape May.

Anywho, with my already low expectations of any new private passenger operations in NJ, I honestly dont see this coming to fruition other than some sort of yearly excursion. I agree that if they can conjure up a service that can cover the variable costs of the passenger operation, I dont see why they wouldn't do it. However, there is a high likelihood is that this would be a money loser and would only drain the profits of the sand operation.

Honestly, I hope I'm wrong. I'm huge supporter of the proliferation of rail transport in all of its forms. I just dont see a tourist service moving people on a relatively unscenic trip between the Pine Barrens(Whiting) and a rundown Shore town(Lakehurst) that is still 10 miles from the Beach. On the other hand, get this service to Red Bank. Then, now we're talking.
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby CTL10D » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:44 am

A buddy of mine texted me over the weekend that lights and gates were installed at Wranglebrook Road (Pleasant Valley Rd)....anybody else see this? -Chris
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Re: CNJ being cleared from Woodmansie > north

Postby Jtgshu » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:49 am

How did we go from talking about rebuilding the line to a tourist operation?

And if we are talking about a tourist operation, I think that the success (or lack of) of the CMSL is absolutely fair game for discussion. Two "tourist" lines running by the same fella but you can't discuss or compare them? Come on.....

Lets see something actually roll over those rails and they actually get reconnected to live rail first. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. I can't imagine that whoever is putting up this money for the various work being done has a tourist operation through this area of the state on the top of the priority list. Maybe there is an agreement that Mr. Macrie can play choochoo trains with people on them on days when not hauling freight, I have no idea.

But im PRETTY certain that when/if the line actually goes back in service, its primary objective will be hauling some kind of freight or materials. Not people.
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